Sugashane Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: When healthy Kevin White looked awful and is out of the league. He had a 66% chance of drafting a stud QB and he missed. On top of that he traded away a bunch of picks to have the right to pick the worst QB in the draft. The hit rate on a 3rd round pick is around 60%. That could be depth or a starter. Shaheen was a cute pick from a tiny school and he has never shown he can play at the NFL level outside of catching goal lines fades and getting concussed. Grasu sucks. He drafted Bullard to play in the wrong system. That is suppose to be a positive? Pleas explain how he is above average in his drafts and be honest about your assessment of his picks? Free agency, come on. He alternates years between good and horrible wastes of money. We have all seen how injuries ruin a career, in White's last year here did you see the same burst that was supposed to make him special when he was drafted? Absolutely not. He didn't show the same explosiveness or athleticism, he just looked like an imposing WR at the end of his tenure here, basically a run blocker. Agreed on Tru, I was one of the few going on about Mahomes here with G08, so by all means you're preaching to the choir. If you're saying a depth pick in the 3rd being lost is a huge knock then you're unrealistic. If it isn't a starter then it can usually be filled easily for depth with a pretty insubstantial contract for a FA. If he could stay healthy and catch goal line fades with regularity no one would have an issue. Pointing that out isn't really supporting your case. Again injuries he has had weren't predictable, but he was a bad pick regardless there. Not sure how with Bullard you see "Pace screwed up" as a positive there honestly. I literally showed he took a player and misused him, not that it was a positive. Someone else has posted DVOA for Pace's picks here and showed that it was overall better than average. But I'll list a few. Daniels and Whitehair have showed a ton of promise, EJax has had a season showing that he can be the best FS in the NFL, Cohen has been an impact player (who I believe is being misused as a WR), Goldman is a stud, Amos was a hell of a return on a 5th round pick, Howard carried our offense his rookie year and was 2nd in the NFL in rushing but was a bad fit for Nagy's system (and you don't choose a HC over the RB so I'm not counting that against him), Bush has performed well in jisnstarts last year, Nick K has become a super sub it seems who is hell for opposing run games, Smith has showed he can be a stud, Miller has been bad this year but last year looked like a potential star, (it would be stupid to write him off already), etc. Of course there were bad picks, every GM does. Is there a GM that constantly knocks it out of the park with FA? Even Bill has a ton of swings amd misses. But Pace brought in Hicks, DT, ARob, Amukamara, snatched up Mack, got HHCD for pennies, Massie played pretty well for being a reasonably priced OT in FA, Burton had a great stretch and has completely derailed from an injury it seems, etc. Of course there were bad pick ups, but again it hasn't been completely damaging to the franchise. Glennon was terrible but clearly by his contract structure he wasn't betting the farm on him. There hasn't been a contract that crushed his ability to build a talented roster or anything, even the best franchises make bad deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, WindyCity said: How many years did we waste with Jerry waiting for him to fix the QB spot? How many good defensive years were thrown away? Pace has announced pretty loudly and boldly that he can’t fix the QB spot. Time to find someone who can. Who would you target? Specifically. I'm not being a jerk just looking at who you'd like, and if you'd want a new HC too. I've said if I was starting over I'd want to look at a Caserio and McDaniels pairing if I'm starting fresh. McDaniels is a douchebag but he clearly can develop QBs as well as anyone in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 56 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Who would you target? Specifically. I'm not being a jerk just looking at who you'd like, and if you'd want a new HC too. I've said if I was starting over I'd want to look at a Caserio and McDaniels pairing if I'm starting fresh. McDaniels is a douchebag but he clearly can develop QBs as well as anyone in the league. Trent Kirchner [Seattle] consistently competitive team, use trades and comp picks well, identified a non-1st round MVP QB. He would be my #1 target. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 I think Pace has been-average in the draft-average in free agency-bad hire for first coach-not sure about the 2nd coach-blew the biggest pick in franchise history [Mitch] and traded up to do it-Mack trade is an obvious positiveWhen you add that all up I do not see a GM worth keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 The DVOA is misleading as it looks at Pro Bowls. Mitch technically counts as a good pick because he went to a Pro Bowl, when in fact he is closer to a franchise altering bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Honest question, why should I trust Pace to pick the next QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Honest question, why should I trust Pace to pick the next QB? You shouldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Honest question, why should I trust Pace to pick the next QB? I wouldn't say he is the one who should, if Nagy is supposed to run the offense let him. If you (Pace) don't trust him to pick the QB then why the hell bring him in to run an offensive system? That being said I'm not sure he gets a trade up, either he picks his QB or doesn't, or identifies who he wants to target for a trade. Then try a player for player trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sugashane said: I wouldn't say he is the one who should, if Nagy is supposed to run the offense let him. If you (Pace) don't trust him to pick the QB then why the hell bring him in to run an offensive system? That being said I'm not sure he gets a trade up, either he picks his QB or doesn't, or identifies who he wants to target for a trade. Then try a player for player trade. That is not why I should trust or even why I should keep Pace to make the decision. I get why Nagy should be involved. Why should I have faith in Pace to pick the next QB? Edited November 14, 2019 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: I think Pace has been-average in the draft-average in free agency-bad hire for first coach-not sure about the 2nd coach-blew the biggest pick in franchise history [Mitch] and traded up to do it-Mack trade is an obvious positiveWhen you add that all up I do not see a GM worth keeping. Being average in the draft is considered a good thing, even more so when looking what they had in previous years under both Emery and Angelo. The only thing I'll agree with you here is that he's given up a lot of ammunition to move up over his few drafts which could have been solid role players since you know...he's good at finding talent in the mid rounds. Disagree on him being average in FA. As Shane pointed out he brought in guys like Hicks, Trevathan, ARob and Prince who are all ballers. More hits than misses IMO. Pace was also faced with a very tough task of filling in major holes on the roster after the previous regimes left little to no young depth behind to build on. It's known that Pace's first head coaching hire was influenced on him by upper management and Ernie Accorsi so let's not crucify him for that one. Also for as bad as it looked under Fox he actually built a solid foundation for Nagy as the next HC, especially on the D side. Mitch is still a work in progress clearly but I am not giving up on him just yet. There's still time. Safe to say this team could be way worse off without Pace. People just cannot get over the fact that he passed on Watson and Mahomes. Edited November 14, 2019 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Being average in the draft is considered a good thing, even more so when looking what they had in previous years under both Emery and Angelo. The only thing I'll agree with you here is that he's given up a lot of ammunition to move up over his few drafts which could have been solid role players since you know...he's good at finding talent in the mid rounds. Disagree on him being average in FA. As Shane pointed out he brought in guys like Hicks, Trevathan, ARob and Prince who are all ballers. More hits than misses IMO. Pace was also faced with a very tough task of filling in major holes on the roster after the previous regimes left little to no young depth behind to build on. It's known that Pace's first head coaching hire was influenced on him by upper management and Ernie Accorsi so let's not crucify him for that one. Also for as bad as it looked under Fox he actually built a solid foundation for Nagy as the next HC, especially on the D side. Mitch is still a work in progress clearly but I am not giving up on him just yet. There's still time. Safe to say this team could be way worse off without Pace. People just cannot get over the fact that he passed on Watson and Mahomes. They shouldn’t. It cost this team a chance at a dynasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 “There’s still time.” It is year 3 and he is arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL. How much longer do people need to wait? He is bad. By every single observable metric he is bad. He is historically/comically bad in some areas. He is a walking analytics punch line at this pojnt. The longer we wait the more years of the defense we waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 McPhee Rolle Glennon Sims Wheaton Burton Demps There have been some pretty expensive misses. Maybe he is a little above average in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Top Why should I have faith in Ryan Pace to pick the next QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, WindyCity said: McPhee Rolle Glennon Sims Wheaton Burton Demps There have been some pretty expensive misses. Maybe he is a little above average in free agency. It's pretty weird you still don't understand what Pace was doing with the Glennon signing. Not as terrible as it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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