Danger Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 In 2002, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers made a move that was rather unique trading away two first round picks and 2 2nd round picks for.... head coach Jon Gruden. It paid immediate dividends for them when the Buccaneers faced Gruden's former team, the Raiders, in the Super Bowl at the end of the ensuing season. Tony Dungy, the previous head coach, was a good coach in his own right, but what if Tampa Bay elected to retain Dungy and the trade for Gruden was never made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Oakland wins the Super Bowl instead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Too hard to say. Don't think Oakland crumbles as fast as they did though after 2002. Edited October 25, 2019 by PapaShogun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Oakland still crumbles because every starter on that team was 45. Tampa Bay likely never slumps until maybe 8 years later. Peyton's entire career is radically different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 1. Tampa would still be Super Bowl virgins People argue that he won with Dungy's team (which is very true), but I don't think Tampa even reaches the Super Bowl with Dungy because of his horrible track record against Philadelphia. 2. Philadelphia reaches the Super Bowl Because I wouldn't trust Dungy against Philly, Super Bowl 37 becomes a rematch between Philly/Oakland. The winner of that game is anyone's guess; Philly was the more balanced team and their defense could still slow down Oakland's offense, but this is still Donovan McNabb and Andy Reid in a big game. Nothing would change much if Oakland won. They easily had the NFL's oldest roster at the time and their collapse afterwards was inevitable. A Philly win, however, changes a LOT of things. Reid and McNabb are revered as heroes in the city and gain longer leashes, even if they still lose to us in Super Bowl 39. 3. Gruden goes to Washington It's a common misconception that the trade happened because Gruden lost in the Tuck Rule game; he and Al Davis weren't compatible due to both being control freaks and having different offensive philosophies (Davis wanted a vertical passing game, Gruden wanted a horizontal west coast offense). Instead of being traded to Tampa, Gruden is sent to Washington because they felt they were just a coach away from contention, had the assets to make the move and Dan Snyder loves making flashy moves like this. Remember, they fired Marty Schottenheimer after just one 8-8 season. Here were the other openings at the time: Indianapolis: Needed the draft picks to rebuild their defense and they wanted a more defensive-minded coach to guide this rebuild. Carolina: Held the second overall pick, so the trade would have been way too expensive. Houston: Just created, so they needed their draft picks to build the foundation of their team. San Diego: Division rival. Needless to say, Gruden never wins a Super Bowl in this scenario, but Washington is overall competitive under him. If they play well in 2003, however, they miss out on Sean Taylor. With Sean Taylor out of the capital, he might still be with us today. Gruden likely wouldn't have stayed in Washington for too long, however, due to butting heads with Dan Snyder. Assuming he gets a deal similar to what he received in Tampa (5 years, $17 million), he would have either choose to leave after the contract was up (which would be after the 2006 season), or would leave in some capacity a little earlier. 4. More coaching changes Here's how those vacancies would look with Dungy off the market: Indianapolis: John Fox Carolina: Steve Spurrier Houston: Dom Capers San Diego: Marty Schottenheimer 5. Carolina does not go to Super Bowl 38 and Philadelphia reaches three straight Super Bowls With Spurrier in Carolina instead of Fox, they get set further back and never reach Super Bowl 38. Without Carolina getting in the way, Philly reaches that Super Bowl instead, but we still probably win it. If things remain the same in 2004, Philly would have reached three straight Super Bowls. 6. What about Tampa and Dungy? It's really hard to say how much longer Dungy would have stayed with Tampa; if he lost to Philly twice in 2002, I don't know how that wouldn't be the final straw. Edited November 9, 2019 by Elky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Elky said: People argue that he won with Dungy's team, but I don't think Tampa wins Super Bowl 37 if Dungy stayed. Not to mention the other team that made it to the Super Bowl that year was built by Gruden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sryan66611 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 John Gruden stays in Oakland for a few more years but ultimately leaves. Tony Dungy gets close but loses in the NFC champ game and doesn't win the SB 2002 season but the next season they replace the Panthers in the SB and ultimately beat the Patriots. Dungy keeps the Bucs afloat for a few more years after that but ultimately retires as the HOF Bucs Head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) If the Gruden to Tampa thing never happens, that means that the Raiders don't get screwed by the Tuck Rule, and they go on and beat the Steelers in the AFC Title Game before losing to the Rams in SB 36 (35-31 on a late TD pass from Warner to Bruce. Warner is MVP). As a result, here's what happens: 1. The Raiders get back the next year and beat the Eagles (Tampa gets an inferior coach than Gruden, and they don't make it to the Super Bowl the next year) or the Rams (with another ring, they play much looser in 02, and they don't get off to an 0-5 start). 2. The Patriots may spend some time thinking about making Brady the QB moving forward (I know that some Pats fans think that they planned to, but that's not what Charlie Weis said when Mike Florio asked him about it). Edited October 25, 2019 by 7DnBrnc53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Raiders win the Super Bowl in 2002 if Gruden doesn’t leave. He knew all of our plays in the SB and knew Gannon better than Gannon knew himself. Gannon was an extension of Gruden just like Goff is an extension of McVay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: If the Gruden to Tampa thing never happens, that means that the Raiders don't get screwed by the Tuck Rule, and they go on and beat the Steelers in the AFC Title Game before losing to the Rams in SB 36 (35-31 on a late TD pass from Warner to Bruce. Warner is MVP). As a result, here's what happens: 1. The Raiders get back the next year and beat the Eagles (Tampa gets an inferior coach than Gruden, and they don't make it to the Super Bowl the next year) or the Rams (with another ring, they play much looser in 02, and they don't get off to an 0-5 start). 2. The Patriots may spend some time thinking about making Brady the QB moving forward (I know that some Pats fans think that they planned to, but that's not what Charlie Weis said when Mike Florio asked him about it). That makes absolutely no sense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Gruden has proven to be just an average coach. Raiders may do better for a bit longer but ultimately they would end up being mediocre for the most part for the rest of the decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Elky said: That makes absolutely no sense. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: Why? How does something that happened on February 2002 affect the results of a game that was played in January that year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Elky said: How does something that happened on February 2002 affect the results of a game that was played in January that year? I think he means that Gruden wouldn't have been traded had he won that game/tuck rule never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Jlowe22 said: I think he means that Gruden wouldn't have been traded had he won that game/tuck rule never happened. Not necessarily. Gruden and Al Davis did not get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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