The NFL isn’t rigged but some Refs are corrupt

[mse326]

1 minute ago, rocky_rams said:

Nobody needs to present you with anything. 

We are talking about a potential issue. Nobody named any names or made claims against specific individuals

You should read your OP again, you don't seem to remember what you posted.

You said nothing about possibility. You said SURE

And there is still no proof that is a possibility other than the fact that there is obviously always a possibility that anyone can be working for nefarious aims.

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Nobody needs to present you with anything. 

We are talking about a potential issue. Nobody named any names or made claims against specific individuals

He’s insane if he thinks someone is gonna give him evidence on a free football forum that has zero benefit to the other individual. Demanding evidence like he is important somehow. 

[mse326]

1 minute ago, rocky_rams said:

I was echoing what Tim Donaghey said 

You said you were sure it is happening. Did he say that? Did he have actual proof or first hand knowledge of that?

[rocky_rams]

1 minute ago, mse326 said:

You should read your OP again, you don't seem to remember what you posted.

You said nothing about possibility. You said SURE

And there is still no proof that is a possibility other than the fact that there is obviously always a possibility that anyone can be working for nefarious aims.

I said I’m sure because of a former refs claim. 

I don’t know what your intentions are but if it’s to get this thread locked then I’m not gonna entertain it. 

Lets agree to disagree and move on

[Xmad]

58 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

I think it's unfair to say individuals are corrupt even makes it a conspiracy. Conspiracy implies it involves a lot of people within the NFL working together to fix games. We are talking about individual corrupt refs going rogue.

They come into the game planning to screw it over, it is a conspiracy even with like 1-2 corrupt refs. Not the Illuminati levels of conspiracy but it technically is one.

59 minutes ago, Bolts223 said:

I do think certain refs are corrupt for one reason or another. Whether it be money or just general disdain or preferences for certain teams.

That's called bias and fans have it more than most refs do.

55 minutes ago, mse326 said:

There is another rational explanation....incompetence.

Do you have actual proof of your assertion?

They never do.

[mse326]

3 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

What would you qualify as evidence? Something like;

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nfl-created-its-own-officiating-nightmare-11571322517

I'm not really sure what you're doing right now. It's pretty clear that officiating has been particularly bad over the last two years, and the bar for what constitutes circumstantial evidence is incredibly low.

Don't have subscription to read, but if the headline is accurate then that says nothing about refs intentionally making bad calls to fix games.

If you are going to claim it isn't incompetence but nefarious then you need evidence of nefariousness. Officiating being bad is not evidence of motive

[nagahide13]

2 minutes ago, mse326 said:

Don't have subscription to read, but if the headline is accurate then that says nothing about refs intentionally making bad calls to fix games.

If you are going to claim it isn't incompetence but nefarious then you need evidence of nefariousness. Officiating being bad is not evidence of motive

You asked me for evidence that officiating is historically bad. Why are you so combative?

Edited October 27, 2019 by nagahide13

[mse326]

2 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I said I’m sure because of a former refs claim. 

I don’t know what your intentions are but if it’s to get this thread locked then I’m not gonna entertain it. 

Lets agree to disagree and move on

My aim is to get you to actually present even a modicum of evidence of your assertion. He didn't claim there definitely is. And even if he did he has no first hand knowledge or that, or even secondary.

You want a discussion/debate. Pretty basic part of either of those things is facts to support your assertions. If you don't or can't provide that you aren't actually looking for a discussion. What exactly do you want the discussion of this thread to be about? Bad officiating? There really isn't any discussion there we know it is bad. Malice by some refs? That you need to at least show evidence of for any meaningful discussion. Simply asserting it is meaningless.

[mse326]

2 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

You asked me for evidence that officiating is historically bad. Why are you so combative?

Since when is asking for proof of assertions combative? That is the basis of every discussion and/or debate.

Can you provide said evidence? I gave several reasons why we as fans are more sensitive and knowledgeable about mistakes. But that does not mean that there have been more of them.

[nagahide13]

Just now, mse326 said:

Since when is asking for proof of assertions combative? That is the basis of every discussion and/or debate.

Can you provide said evidence? I gave several reasons why we as fans are more sensitive and knowledgeable about mistakes. But that does not mean that there have been more of them.

I just gave you evidence and you claimed it was the wrong kind of evidence for a different argument. I think you're kind of lost. I think you also completely misunderstand who Tim Donaghey is and what his relevance is to the conversation.

Donaghey did not fix games. Donaghey bet on games he officiated because he knew of his co-workers inherent bias against certain players and certain teams in certain situations. He also heavily implied that the mafia fixes games and might influence officiating.

 Attempting to intimidate the intellect of other posters is kind of childish.

[mse326]

4 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

I just gave you evidence and you claimed it was the wrong kind of evidence for a different argument. I think you're kind of lost. I think you also completely misunderstand who Tim Donaghey is and what his relevance is to the conversation.

Donaghey did not fix games. Donaghey bet on games he officiated because he knew of his co-workers inherent bias against certain players and certain teams in certain situations. He also heavily implied that the mafia fixes games and might influence officiating.

 Attempting to intimidate the intellect of other posters is kind of childish.

intimidate the intellect? I don't even know what that means but I've said nothing regarding anyone's intelligence.

Donaghey intentionally made calls to change games he didn't just bet based on coworkers biases.

And I know exactly who he is. An NBA ref who knows how this works. So what? Knowing how it works is not proof that it is happening. He has no expertise that would show that that is happening. Again read the OP. My issue FROM THE START was the assertion that it definitely is happening. Then even he walks back to possibility that it is happening but not admitting his OP said more, I don't know.

With that said neither you nor the OP have presented any evidence of nefarious means by any ref. You've simply made bald assertions about what is or might be happening. And you basing it a person who has no inside knowledge of any NFL ref.

What type of discussion are you looking for? Just people saying you're right? If not that then I don't know what else you expect someone to say other than you have no proof of it.

[Soko]

A former referee of nearly 13 years ago, from a different sports league, talks about corruption...

So how’s that relevant to to the NFL in 2019? This is the equivalent to a basketball player from 2007 saying he would take side bets and throw games, so someone in the NFL must surely be doing it today.

[7DnBrnc53]

34 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I never said that games are being fixed. That would mean that it’s rigged. 

I also did not say I have proof of anything happening. Again, im basing this off a former referee who got caught manipulating games.

He said there is a possibility it is happening currently. 

What part of that don’t you understand? 

It could be happening in the NFL. Look up Mayer vs. Belichick (Mayer was a Jet fan who sued the Pats after Spygate). Fans who enter the ballpark aren't entitled to a legit game. Look at today's Cle-NE game (Chubb's first fumble and that INT by Guy look staged to me).

[nagahide13]

12 minutes ago, mse326 said:

intimidate the intellect? I don't even know what that means but I've said nothing regarding anyone's intelligence.

Donaghey intentionally made calls to change games he didn't just bet based on coworkers biases.

And I know exactly who he is. An NBA ref who knows how this works. So what? Knowing how it works is not proof that it is happening. He has no expertise that would show that that is happening. Again read the OP. My issue FROM THE START was the assertion that it definitely is happening. Then even he walks back to possibility that it is happening but not admitting his OP said more, I don't know.

With that said neither you nor the OP have presented any evidence of nefarious means by any ref. You've simply made bald assertions about what is or might be happening. And you basing it a person who has no inside knowledge of any NFL ref.

What type of discussion are you looking for? Just people saying you're right? If not that then I don't know what else you expect someone to say other than you have no proof of it.

1. Lol. Strike a pose, people are watching. You're trying to make people look/feel stupid, and that's childish.

2. Do you have proof of that? Because that's an ACTUAL accusation.

3. My entire point is that this warrants discussion, not shouting down.

4. I haven't even expressed my opinion. I'm trying to defend posters right to have a discussion without being shouted down.

5. I'm pretty sure you're combining like 5 posters into 1 and arguing against all of them simultaneously.

[nagahide13]

16 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

A former referee of nearly 13 years ago, from a different sports league, talks about corruption...

So how’s that relevant to to the NFL in 2019? This is the equivalent to a basketball player from 2007 saying he would take side bets and throw games, so someone in the NFL COULD be doing it today.

See, it's weird how changing one small thing makes it make complete sense.