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Shurmur Fired, officially stuck with Dopey Dave thread

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Well where to start. Poor game planning, poor game management, horrible clock management, mis use of talent, no pressure on qbs, undisciplined penalties causing drives to extend and lead to other teams points.. Ya, can them all. Like now. This team is not going to win with these a--clowns at the helm.

Frustrating loss guys. Really is. Tired of this defence seemingly getting tossed around like a bunch of ragdolls. We seem to get 2 steps forward and then take 5 steps back. The undisciplined penalties regardless if they were legit or not are just beyond agitating. The running into the kicker, untimely holding calls, offsides, PI's that did or did not exist.. This team has so many problems going on it's beyond exhausting. Bettcher's just not the right coach for this defence. In my opinion, the men we have are not made for a 3-4 set up. I don't care what anyone says about saying the players have to adapt. U cant take players whom have played most of their lives in a certain type of defensive set up and say ok well toss that out the window this is how we are gonna use you. It would be like telling a guy who's a 25 year master carpenter, hey your not doing carpentry anymore you are gonna have to be an attorney. 3-4 requires very specific players for very specific purposes and especially with how complex Bettcher's scheme is. And don't give me that lack of talent BS. Tired of hearing it. He's had 2 years now to bring in his personnel to run this thing and 2 drafts for prospects and it aint working. Time to cut bait with this fool. And Shurmur should be right out the door with him.

The only saving grace from this season so far is we are finding out that Daniel Jones can play. With 322 yards passing and 4 TD's that's a great day for any quarterback. Yes the backwards pass was bad. Let him take the lumps now, its year 1 for him. Totally ok to make his mistakes, he's still learning the pro level game.

Edited by Giants4eva

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Not sure I'm there yet. I'm totally onboard with replacing Bettcher and going back to a 4-3 defense. I do not think we have the personnel, talent, or competent coach to run this 3-4 hybrid whatever it is. Draft a couple decent ends and utilize the DT talent we have and go back to an aggressive 4-3. Shurmur despite his issues with challenges, time management, and some questionable calls here and there has fielded a decent offense this year. Considering he's dealing with a rookie QB who's made alot of mistakes, missing his #1 WR for most of the season, EE and SB missing significant time.

To me the defense is far and away the biggest issue. They've held 1 team this year to under 27 points...Washington. And it's not like they've been playing powerhouse offenses aside from Dallas, NE and Minny. Bills, Bucs, Lions, and Cards. Pathetic. Some of it's lack of talent, but in my opinion it's the scheme. It's either way too convoluted and the players can't grasp it and keep blowing assignments, or it's so simple the offenses can identify it and have the perfect answers to beat it over and over. But in the end it's on Bettcher and he needs to go.

I don't want to blow it all up and restart again because thats another 3 years of Barkleys prime wasted. Bring in a new DC, draft some set pieces he needs to field even an average defense, and this is a playoff team.

Edited by Shockey1979

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6 hours ago, Shockey1979 said:

Not sure I'm there yet. I'm totally onboard with replacing Bettcher and going back to a 4-3 defense. I do not think we have the personnel, talent, or competent coach to run this 3-4 hybrid whatever it is. Draft a couple decent ends and utilize the DT talent we have and go back to an aggressive 4-3. Shurmur despite his issues with challenges, time management, and some questionable calls here and there has fielded a decent offense this year. Considering he's dealing with a rookie QB who's made alot of mistakes, missing his #1 WR for most of the season, EE and SB missing significant time.

To me the defense is far and away the biggest issue. They've held 1 team this year to under 27 points...Washington. And it's not like they've been playing powerhouse offenses aside from Dallas, NE and Minny. Bills, Bucs, Lions, and Cards. Pathetic. Some of it's lack of talent, but in my opinion it's the scheme. It's either way too convoluted and the players can't grasp it and keep blowing assignments, or it's so simple the offenses can identify it and have the perfect answers to beat it over and over. But in the end it's on Bettcher and he needs to go.

I don't want to blow it all up and restart again because thats another 3 years of Barkleys prime wasted. Bring in a new DC, draft some set pieces he needs to field even an average defense, and this is a playoff team.

The way i see they are gonna give Shurmur 1 more season with DJ going into his 2nd full year. DJ's progression with dictate just how long Shurmur stays and thus far he's been doing well overall. Yesterdays game showed he can light up the scoreboard with even some semblence of protection. But Bettcher is without a doubt a goner. I just cannot see this team going anywhere with his garbage scheme. I worry that even with the talent we have, he cant / will not get the most out of them because they are not designed for what he's running. We can bring in Jadeveon Clowney, Myles Garrett and DeMarcus Lawrence and theyd all look lost in this defensive set up he's using. 

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I never really attributed the defensive woes to Bettcher, tbh. Switching from 4-3 to 3-4 takes time to get the right personnel in. Our defense is so damn young and that is a major part of the current problem IMO. Jackrabbit is a boom or bust player and is giving up a lot of big plays. The other CBs are figuring things out on the fly. Maybe they'll become something, maybe they won't but I don't think the plays they give up are scheme issues necessarily. But I do think there is an unusual amount of confusion out there so maybe things are too complicated (which would be on Bettcher). I just always associated the issues to personnel.

But on Shurmur, I really don't think he will ever become a quality HC. He doesn't seem to adjust well mid-game and seems to not focus on the right things. The problem is when you keep moving on from coaches too quickly there's no continuity. All of a sudden, Daniel Jones isn't the new coach's "guy" and there's stress there. I mean the roster turnover has to slow down.

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Shurmur will get another year. This is a complete rebuilding done terribly wrong. They aren’t giving up after 2 years.

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I’m not ready to quit on Shurmur either. Would definitely consider a change with the defensive coordinator depending on who is available. 

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19 hours ago, Gmen said:

I’m not ready to quit on Shurmur either. Would definitely consider a change with the defensive coordinator depending on who is available. 

I guess I'd be fine with that as long as it's another 3-4 scheme... it's not smart to waffle back and forth between schemes and then finding the right personnel fits.

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Welp, another A-- whipping given to us. Courtesy of the Cowboys. This thread should be on fire after that dumpster fire showing. DeAndre Baker has alot of problems. I dont wanna call him out but he got lit up like a xmas tree tonight. Bettchers defence couldnt do anything against that Dallas oline. Im so done with his garbage scheme.

Edited by Giants4eva

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Am I crazy in thinking that the current talent we have on Defense still would fit a 4-3 scheme better? Tomlinson, Williams, Lawrence, and Hill would actually made a decent line. LB talent and depth is and has been lacking on this team for years. Feel like they could fire Bettcher right now, convert back to a 4-3 and be much improved. The amount of blown assignments on defense is mind numbing. I'd take Fewell or Sheridan back in a heartbeat right now.

Not excusing the offense, they have their issues as well. But I'm just baffled by how horrible this defense is. Still think Shurmur can be redeemed and should get 1 more season before he's on the hot seat. Playing HC roulette sucks.... wish they would have just stuck with Coughlin. :$

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44 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said:

Am I crazy in thinking that the current talent we have on Defense still would fit a 4-3 scheme better? Tomlinson, Williams, Lawrence, and Hill would actually made a decent line. LB talent and depth is and has been lacking on this team for years. Feel like they could fire Bettcher right now, convert back to a 4-3 and be much improved. The amount of blown assignments on defense is mind numbing. I'd take Fewell or Sheridan back in a heartbeat right now.

Not excusing the offense, they have their issues as well. But I'm just baffled by how horrible this defense is. Still think Shurmur can be redeemed and should get 1 more season before he's on the hot seat. Playing HC roulette sucks.... wish they would have just stuck with Coughlin. :$

Yes please. 

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https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/05/deandre-baker-shocking-admission-speaks-volumes-about-new-york-giants/?fbclid=IwAR16Ir8R1WX0jpVf1QKNJjrE3yrXrjuBZKD3mzu3yJXewXSnNP9D6T0zFyg

Gee, what a shock. Player not understanding the scheme. Sounds like something we've all been saying for a while now. Can we please can this fool like ASAP

 

 

Edited by Giants4eva

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4 hours ago, Giants4eva said:

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/05/deandre-baker-shocking-admission-speaks-volumes-about-new-york-giants/?fbclid=IwAR16Ir8R1WX0jpVf1QKNJjrE3yrXrjuBZKD3mzu3yJXewXSnNP9D6T0zFyg

Gee, what a shock. Player not understanding the scheme. Sounds like something we've all been saying for a while now. Can we please can this fool like ASAP

 

 

 

Yeah. It's probably time. I wonder if there's any way the Giants could steal Eberflus from the Colts? That guy is a stud. 

Shurmur will probably get one more year after this (Bettcher will probably be sacrificed). But if next year is as bad as this year I'd imagine he and Gettleman could be out. 

I feel like John Mara and Steve Tisch get way too much of a free pass too. The Giants have quietly been bad for a long time.    

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17 hours ago, NYGiantsman10 said:

 

Yeah. It's probably time. I wonder if there's any way the Giants could steal Eberflus from the Colts? That guy is a stud. 

Shurmur will probably get one more year after this (Bettcher will probably be sacrificed). But if next year is as bad as this year I'd imagine he and Gettleman could be out. 

I feel like John Mara and Steve Tisch get way too much of a free pass too. The Giants have quietly been bad for a long time.    

I really can see that happening. Our ownership shows more restraint and more patience that literally anybody else in the NFL. Sometimes they wait too long. But i think that Mara and Tisch have Bettcher in their cross hairs at this point. 

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