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Bill O'Brien Hot Seat Thread

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2 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I'm not @Apollo Stallion, but will chime in.

First off - I think what this team ultimately needs is a Football Tzar. A Director of Football Operations. You've seen this before with teams, they bring in someone who knows football from both on field and off field management and someone who can manage the HC and the GM in tandem. I'm thinking there are only a few guys qualified for this role (Mike Shanahan, Bill Parcells, Mike Holmgren, etc). One guy I'd like to see in the role? D!ck Vermeil (sorry, had to bypass the filter). Has a winning pedigree, and built up one of the greatest offenses with an unknown QB in Kurt Warner. He's not going to be asked to coach, or GM - he builds the road map that the coach and GM follow. 

(Tricky part will be getting Vermeil because he's enjoying retired life while running his winery).

On to GM, which is a tricky add - you really don't hear about a GM vs Assistant HCs, coordinators, etc. Most GMs you hear about are guys who failed at the next level. You COULD go the 49ers route with a guy with zero experience (John Lynch) but why risk it? One risk that looks like it's paying off? The Browns with Paul DePodesta and Saashi Brown, two baseball guys who are known for their deep analytics. Luckily, Houston DOES have two GMs that are analytic-driven guys in Jeff Lunhow of the Astros and Daryl Morey of the Rockets. I doubt either are leaving their posts, but they have a fully primed staff ready to harvest from. Find a guy who can crunch numbers to the Nth degree from one of those two teams, and find quality players where nobody was expecting to find 'em.

And, onto HC. Toughest spot to locate talent. My initial thought was Matt Patricia from New England, and I haven't completely given up on that. Just don't think another NE neophyte will pay dividends. Dabo Swinney has a cushy gig at Clemson, doubt he goes - and I'm not too keen on another college guy making this jump. Mike Vrabel was just as much the problem on Sunday as O'Brien, but that doesn't get him off the list. 

Given the safeguards with a hypothetical Vermeil on board as a Football Tzar, I'm OK with a continuity-based hiring of Vrabel as HC. If not that, then you find a guy with HC experience, such as a John Fox or Lovie Smith. (Not tied to either name, just giving you an idea of a resume that would stand out).

Ultimately, change starts at the top - in the sense that you create a NEW top, and let the message flow downward. You see Tom Coughlin's fingerprints all over this Jags team, time to get some winning fingerprints on our team.

 

If literally any of what you say happens I will quit watching this team. We need to stop running the retread of garbage. Stop with the Vermeils, Smith and Foxs of the world. They are washed up and aren't able to adapt to the new NFL. We need new life blood in this organization, not guys who haven't succeeded in over a decade. 

 

Scott Pioli interests me as GM, he had a rough go in KC but ultimately left them with a very talented roster. I would love him as GM, but honestly I would rather back the brinks truck to Jim Harbaugh and offer him full control of this team. The guy just wins everywhere he goes and gets the most out of his talent on the field. Give him what he wants

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2 minutes ago, amazingandre said:

If literally any of what you say happens I will quit watching this team. We need to stop running the retread of garbage. Stop with the Vermeils, Smith and Foxs of the world. They are washed up and aren't able to adapt to the new NFL. We need new life blood in this organization, not guys who haven't succeeded in over a decade. 

 

Scott Pioli interests me as GM, he had a rough go in KC but ultimately left them with a very talented roster. I would love him as GM, but honestly I would rather back the brinks truck to Jim Harbaugh and offer him full control of this team. The guy just wins everywhere he goes and gets the most out of his talent on the field. Give him what he wants

- Asks for no retreads.

- Immediately calls for a retread at GM.

Makes sense.

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7 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I would rather back the brinks truck to Jim Harbaugh and offer him full control of this team. The guy just wins everywhere he goes and gets the most out of his talent on the field. Give him what he wants

He's got what he wants - a cushy gig at his alma mater. 

 

9 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

We need to stop running the retread of garbage

Hmm. Didn't know O'Brien and Kubiak had HC gigs in the NFL before they took on the Texans gig. 

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33 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

He's got what he wants - a cushy gig at his alma mater. 

 

Hmm. Didn't know O'Brien and Kubiak had HC gigs in the NFL before they took on the Texans gig. 

I never said we had retread hired already, but guys on this board want people who have done squat in this league like they are some savior. 

 

Pioli left KC very talented and has done a great job in Atlanta. 

I get Harbaugh not coming here, I understand that, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't try. If he doesn't coming, then I don't know who I would prefer. I do not want anyone you named. Those guys have flamed out a few times now. I really wanted Kyle before he went to San Fran. Any other up and coming offensive guys who are ready to take the leap? 

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10 minutes ago, amazingandre said:

I never said we had retread hired already, but guys on this board want people who have done squat in this league like they are some savior. 

The only name I'm "tied" to would be Vermeil, who would be serving in a completely different capacity - not a coach, not a GM, but the guy who keeps those two in line. Like what Coughlin is doing in Jacksonville. He doesn't coach, doesn't make player decisions, but that team just falls into the Coughlin mold now. 

I guess the best way to say it - I want a buffer between the football based guys and Cal/Bob McNair. Somebody who knows enough football to put their stamp on the team, but somebody who'd keep Cal in check from getting too buddy/buddy with the staff. 

Doesn't have to be Vermeil, actually. Just somebody who did well, somebody who can say "hmm, not sure if that's the right idea..."

16 minutes ago, amazingandre said:

Pioli left KC very talented and has done a great job in Atlanta. 

I'd put that more on Dimitroff than Pioli - just thinking that football guys is part of the problem here. Maybe I'm showing too much goodwill to what Cleveland is doing, but DePodesta and Brown have really taken an interesting take with their moneyball analytics, and the Texans have two of the best data crunchers in their own backyard.

 

21 minutes ago, amazingandre said:

I get Harbaugh not coming here, I understand that, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't try. If he doesn't coming, then I don't know who I would prefer. I do not want anyone you named. Those guys have flamed out a few times now. I really wanted Kyle before he went to San Fran. Any other up and coming offensive guys who are ready to take the leap?

I'm thinking the other side of the ball if we go coordinator - defense. Build on your strengths, outsource the offense to a Wade Phillips type guru on that side of the ball as an Assistant HC (Norv Turner? Mike McCoy?)

Matt Patricia is my first choice if that's the direction. Not sold on it, but worth looking into.

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Call me crazy, but I'm placing a call to Austin and getting Tom Herman on the line. We need to bring back the Htowntakeover Texans style.

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18 hours ago, amazingandre said:

@Apollo Stallion I am curious to who you would consider at GM and HC if we were to clean house.

Josh McDaniels makes too much sense.  He's always been the brains and chief innovator behind the New England offense, not some placeholder handed a playbook to let Brady execute like O'Brien (and Kubiak).  I'll give him a pass on the "retread" label since he was all of 33 when he got the Chiefs gig and well, you know a guy named Bill Belichick also get fired from his first HC gig.  The biggest challenge here is whether he's the "coach in waiting" when Belichick decides to hang it up, but that's kind of like saying someone is the heir apparent to Tom Brady - neither seems like they'll be going anywhere soon.  We've already gone halfway in on becoming New England-Southwest let's finish the job with a guy who can actually CREATE offenses that evolve with the talent on the team vs. O'Brien who has McDaniels 2007 binder and keeps putting square blocks into round holes.  McDaniels beat RAC's defense with Jacoby f.ng Brisset last year - give him an offseason to dream up creative ways to maximise Watson's talents and minimize the exposure from some of the dregs Smith has saddled us with.  The RAC/Vrabel tandem could certainly stick around which would maintain continuity with the strength of the team.  GM hire to come, but make no mistake - this would be McDaniel's team.  

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2 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

The only name I'm "tied" to would be Vermeil, who would be serving in a completely different capacity - not a coach, not a GM, but the guy who keeps those two in line. Like what Coughlin is doing in Jacksonville. He doesn't coach, doesn't make player decisions, but that team just falls into the Coughlin mold now. 

I guess the best way to say it - I want a buffer between the football based guys and Cal/Bob McNair. Somebody who knows enough football to put their stamp on the team, but somebody who'd keep Cal in check from getting too buddy/buddy with the staff. 

Doesn't have to be Vermeil, actually. Just somebody who did well, somebody who can say "hmm, not sure if that's the right idea..."

I'd put that more on Dimitroff than Pioli - just thinking that football guys is part of the problem here. Maybe I'm showing too much goodwill to what Cleveland is doing, but DePodesta and Brown have really taken an interesting take with their moneyball analytics, and the Texans have two of the best data crunchers in their own backyard.

 

I'm thinking the other side of the ball if we go coordinator - defense. Build on your strengths, outsource the offense to a Wade Phillips type guru on that side of the ball as an Assistant HC (Norv Turner? Mike McCoy?)

Matt Patricia is my first choice if that's the direction. Not sold on it, but worth looking into.

I was thinking about this for a bit now. If you want to hire a football mind to help run the team but not as HC or GM, I would prefer Cowher. I don't want him as HC or GM, but he would serve us extremely well in the same role Coughlin is for Jacksonville now. 

@Apollo Stallion I don't hate the McDaniels pick, the guy did win with Tebow, something that shouldn't be ignored, but the fear of Patriots coordinators is very real for me. 

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48 minutes ago, Apollo Stallion said:

Josh McDaniels makes too much sense.  He's always been the brains and chief innovator behind the New England offense, not some placeholder handed a playbook to let Brady execute like O'Brien (and Kubiak).  I'll give him a pass on the "retread" label since he was all of 33 when he got the Chiefs gig and well, you know a guy named Bill Belichick also get fired from his first HC gig.  The biggest challenge here is whether he's the "coach in waiting" when Belichick decides to hang it up, but that's kind of like saying someone is the heir apparent to Tom Brady - neither seems like they'll be going anywhere soon.  We've already gone halfway in on becoming New England-Southwest let's finish the job with a guy who can actually CREATE offenses that evolve with the talent on the team vs. O'Brien who has McDaniels 2007 binder and keeps putting square blocks into round holes.  McDaniels beat RAC's defense with Jacoby f.ng Brisset last year - give him an offseason to dream up creative ways to maximise Watson's talents and minimize the exposure from some of the dregs Smith has saddled us with.  The RAC/Vrabel tandem could certainly stick around which would maintain continuity with the strength of the team.  GM hire to come, but make no mistake - this would be McDaniel's team.  

Guys I think would be a great pairing for McDaniels would be a dream team of Scot Mccloughan & Nick Caserio with one getting a VP role and the other GM.  Mccloughlan was the architect of the Seahawks current success and fits the mold with McDaniels as an innovator.  Dude has plenty of personal issues that would have to be fully vetted (he's a recovering alcoholic), but he got screwed in Washington by the worst front office man in football, Bruce Allen and horrible ownership.  If the guy's life is in order, there is not a more talented evaluator of talent around.  Find me any teams making playoff (or Super Bowl) runs with 3rd-4th round Qbs - Mac did it twice with Wilson and Cousins.

The other role goes to NE player personnel director Nick Caserio who already has a great working relationship with McDaniels.  He fills the caps/contracts role that is the only one that Rick has ever been remotely competent at. Unlike Rick, he understands roster management which is why the Pats can actually execute the "next man up" philosophy where we go into week 2 of a season already decimated.  

BTW - for the "not another Patriots guy" crowd, recognize the common link behind ALL of the Patriots SUPER BOWL seasons.  They've never won a ring without McDaniels running the o.  To hell with Tim Tebow, this guy had the Patriots winning 11 games with Matt Cassel at QB!  There is a huge difference between someone who implements someone else's playbook vs. one who literally rewrites it every year to stay ahead of the game, not a decade behind it like Bill O'Brien.

Edited by Apollo Stallion

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