Aaron Jones

[Fl0nkerton]

 

[skibrett15]

what exactly is the healthy qualifier? is Gurley considered "healthy"?

[SSG]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Look at the numbers across the board.  Aside from GP, Dalvin Cook has a pretty healthy lead.  Dalvin Cook is a special back, and he was viewed that way coming out of Florida State.  Aaron Jones wasn't a special player coming out of UTEP.  And all of a sudden some people are talking about paying him elite RB money.  Dalvin Cook has been considerably more consistent.  Dalvin Cook has gone over 100 yards rushing 5 of his 8 games, and 5 of 8 games he's averaged more than 4.5 YPA.  Aaron Jones has gone over 100 yards rushing in 2 out of the 8 games, and averaging 4.5+ YPA in 3 of his 8 games.  Aaron Jones has been good, but Dalvin Cook has been better and more consistent.  Dalvin Cook is Minnesota's offense.

Dalvin Cook was not a special back coming out of Florida State.  He was a name brand player coming from the big program who needed 3 years in league before he had any sort of success.  Aaron Jones tested as a better athlete in every single measurable except the 40 with a sizable gap in the majority of the drills.  I fail to understand why simply going to Florida State makes Dalvin Cook the better pro?

Aaron Jones is a 3rd year pro who averaged 5.5 yards per carry coming into the year.  During his rookie year, he was one of the NFL's most explosive backs.  No RB in the league that year gained 20 or more yards at a better rate then Aaron Jones (every 13.5 carry).  He was 11th that year in 20 yards runs despite being 52nd among RBs in carries because of injuries and having to move his way up the depth chart.

Over their NFL careers Dalvin Cook hasn't been anymore consistent. Cook had more starts in the NFL and the benefit of having the starting job handed to him day 1 because of his draft status.  While he's been slightly more productive because of the massive touch difference this year he hasn't been the better back having been less effective over his career on a per touch basis.

How is Dalvin Cook Minnesota's offense and Aaron Jones isn't Green Bay's?  Jones leads Green Bay in rushing yards, total yards, RECEPTIONS and TDs.  He's got 65 fewer receiving yards than our most productive pass catcher this year.  Cook is not nearly as impact on his team's passing offense.  The difference between the 2 this year is usage in the running game.  Cook is getting substantially more carries every game.  

[AlexGreen#20]

15 minutes ago, SSG said:

Dalvin Cook was not a special back coming out of Florida State.  He was a name brand player coming from the big program who needed 3 years in league before he had any sort of success.  Aaron Jones tested as a better athlete in every single measurable except the 40 with a sizable gap in the majority of the drills.  I fail to understand why simply going to Florida State makes Dalvin Cook the better pro?

Aaron Jones is a 3rd year pro who averaged 5.5 yards per carry coming into the year.  During his rookie year, he was one of the NFL's most explosive backs.  No RB in the league that year gained 20 or more yards at a better rate then Aaron Jones (every 13.5 carry).  He was 11th that year in 20 yards runs despite being 52nd among RBs in carries because of injuries and having to move his way up the depth chart.

Over their NFL careers Dalvin Cook hasn't been anymore consistent. Cook had more starts in the NFL and the benefit of having the starting job handed to him day 1 because of his draft status.  While he's been slightly more productive because of the massive touch difference this year he hasn't been the better back having been less effective over his career on a per touch basis.

How is Dalvin Cook Minnesota's offense and Aaron Jones isn't Green Bay's?  Jones leads Green Bay in rushing yards, total yards, RECEPTIONS and TDs.  He's got 65 fewer receiving yards than our most productive pass catcher this year.  Cook is not nearly as impact on his team's passing offense.  The difference between the 2 this year is usage in the running game.  Cook is getting substantially more carries every game.  

Jones also has a WAY better offensive line that he's running behind. Cook is an elite guy when it comes to manufacturing his own yardage. Jones isn't on that level. 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 hour ago, SSG said:

Dalvin Cook was not a special back coming out of Florida State.  He was a name brand player coming from the big program who needed 3 years in league before he had any sort of success.  Aaron Jones tested as a better athlete in every single measurable except the 40 with a sizable gap in the majority of the drills.  I fail to understand why simply going to Florida State makes Dalvin Cook the better pro?

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to say it took three years in the NFL when in fact he was very impressive to start the rookie season but then tore his left ACL and missed 3/4 of that season? 

 

[Golfman]

I'm not paying Jones 10 million a year, no matter how well he plays the rest of this year and next year. IF he finishes this year the way he's playing now, I'm giving him a 3 for 24 or 4 for 32 with no guaranteed money after 2022. Might make the first two years of the deal guaranteed though. If he balks I try and get a 1st round pick out of somebody for him or a second rounder that falls in the top 10.

If the guy puts up 17 TD's and close to 1800 combined yards, somebody will bite. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Golfman

[Norm]

1 hour ago, SSG said:

Dalvin Cook was not a special back coming out of Florida State. 

This is bull****. He tested like ****, but he was absolutely a game changer in college. FSU would be down 3 scores and just force feed him the ball and they would come back, he was insane. but then the numbers nerds (not you necessarily) saw his combine and he was some average overrated player. Dude could play.

(In b4 "game changers in college don't mean a thing")

Edited October 29, 2019 by Norm

[SSG]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Okay, I"m following you here.  You say pay him if he continues on his current level.

My question to you...at what level?  On par with the top 4 guys at the position?  Or a clear tier below?

David Johnson was their offense.  Aaron Rodgers is ours.  

I feel like the reason Jones is so effective now is because he is only playing 60% of the snaps.  Give him too much more and he'll break down.  He is not built that way.  How we are using him is kind of perfect.

Your issue is the McKinnon contract versus his prior production.  I get that.  Thought he was an overpay myself.

Also thought Tevin Coleman was an underpay and wished we would have done that.

Tough to pay guys top dollar when Tevin does his thing at a fraction of the price.  I'd argue he's more your comp based on past production and current usage (job share).  And I feel like Jones would fetch more than Coleman...as well he should.

BTW...great discussion on your part.  Thank you.

For me it's hard to argue production because it's not an apples to apples comparison.  Jones is only getting 60% of the offensive snaps.  To compare him to a guy like Cook who's getting substantially more touches per game isn't a fair comparison in my eyes.  On a per touch basis, Jones has been the more productive back.  

Over the last 4 games Aaron Jones is leading the team in rushing, receiving, catches (both by a huge margin) and TDs.  He's carried the offense both on the ground and as a receiver.  Hard to say that David Johnson was the Arizona offense when Aaron Jones has been our only offensive skill position player that's been worth a ****.  

I  don't think there is any way to substantiate that Aaron Jones is more productive with less snaps.  

Correct.  Jerick McKinnon was a career back up who got paid 7.5 million per year to be a starter.  If Jones stays healthy and continues to produce this year is going to be a lot closer to McKinnon's career production than it is too any single year in his career.  

I  don't see the Coleman comp.  He was a career back up who only seen starts because of injuries to the starter.  If Jones stays healthy and continues to produce he's going to decimate Coleman's best season as a pro.  If Jones keeps up his current production, Alvin Kamara is his best comp IMO.  Like I  stated previously in the post, he's been our most productive runner and receiver over the past 4 weeks.  I don't think guys like that fall off trees.  

[SSG]

20 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to say it took three years in the NFL when in fact he was very impressive to start the rookie season but then tore his left ACL and missed 3/4 of that season? 

 

Dalvin Cook didn't miss 3/4 of last year.  He started 10 games and was extremely underwhelming.  Both players have struggled through injuries in their 3 year NFL careers.

Both players started their careers on an impressive not.  Let's not forget that Aaron Jones had over 255 yards rushing/ 2 TDs in his first 2 starts and he did it with a fraction of the touches that Cook was getting in Minnesota.

[SSG]

 

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Jones also has a WAY better offensive line that he's running behind. Cook is an elite guy when it comes to manufacturing his own yardage. Jones isn't on that level. 

Aaron Jones is statically one of the hardest RBs in the NFL to tackle.  He's as good at forcing missed tackles and getting yards after contact as any RB in the NFL.

Think you are underselling Minnesota's line which has been the better run blocking unit this year.  They are a much improvement unit this year.  Kline and Bradbury were huge big upgrades that helped improve 3 spots with the movement of Elflien to guard where he's a better fit.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, SSG said:

 

Aaron Jones is statically one of the hardest RBs in the NFL to tackle.  He's as good at forcing missed tackles and getting yards after contact as any RB in the NFL.

Think you are underselling Minnesota's line which has been the better run blocking unit this year.  They are a much improvement unit this year.  Kline and Bradbury were huge big upgrades that helped improve 3 spots with the movement of Elflien to guard where he's a better fit.

 

Yeah, we're done here

[SSG]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Don't pay RBs.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

Had we had this discussion prior to the start of the year I  would have been in this camp.  Over the last 4 weeks though Aaron Jones has put this offense on his back and carried them.  He's lead the team in rushing, receiving, catches and TDs.  He hasn't been just a RB.  He's a been TD machine that's lined up all over the offense and has EASILY been our best and most productive pass catcher.  We've got 3 or 4 losses this year without him IMO.

 

[SSG]

15 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Yeah, we're done here

There is nothing that supports the idea that Minnesota's rushing game is all Cook behind a bad line.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by SSG

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, SSG said:

Had we had this discussion prior to the start of the year I  would have been in this camp.  Over the last 4 weeks though Aaron Jones has put this offense on his back and carried them.  He's lead the team in rushing, receiving, catches and TDs.  He hasn't been just a RB.  He's a been TD machine that's lined up all over the offense and has EASILY been our best and most productive pass catcher.  We've got 3 or 4 losses this year without him IMO.

 

And like every RB, he's going to hit 280 touches, show some serious signs of wear on the tires and be close to broken down by his 6th year in the league. 

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Yeah, we're done here

Bradbury is truly terrible.  And that's on an offensive line that is full of terrible.