MrBobGray Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, CWood21 said: Look at the numbers across the board. Aside from GP, Dalvin Cook has a pretty healthy lead. Dalvin Cook is a special back, and he was viewed that way coming out of Florida State. Aaron Jones wasn't a special player coming out of UTEP. And all of a sudden some people are talking about paying him elite RB money. Dalvin Cook has been considerably more consistent. Dalvin Cook has gone over 100 yards rushing 5 of his 8 games, and 5 of 8 games he's averaged more than 4.5 YPA. Aaron Jones has gone over 100 yards rushing in 2 out of the 8 games, and averaging 4.5+ YPA in 3 of his 8 games. Aaron Jones has been good, but Dalvin Cook has been better and more consistent. Dalvin Cook is Minnesota's offense. I mean, I just don't see it in the numbers. In their careers: Aaron Jones - 32 games played, 328 carries, 1642 yards, 5.0 YPC, 20 TDs, 69 receptions, 583 yards, 8.4 YPR, 4 TDs, 3 Fumbles Dalvin Cook - 22 games played, 363 carries, 1792 yards, 4.9 YPC, 13 TDs, 80 receptions, 688 yards, 8.6 YPR, 2 TDs, 5 Fumbles They're close in production, and Jones has had better offensive units on balance I think in their careers. So, I think that's pretty even. This year Cook certainly has a healthy lead, but the Packers were also installing a completely new offensive philosophy and Jones's production has increased as the offense settles. Stefanski was interim coordinator last year and was on staff with DeFilippo so presumably there should be continuity there for Cook. I just don't see how you can argue that the numbers show Cook is elite or more consistent. He's been outproduced until this season, and he fumbles more. Cook is having a monster year but Jones is clearly a high level playmaker this year as well. Now if you want to talk the eye test, I'm open to it. Cook is a more decisive, compact runner, and his angles are just beautiful to watch. He reminds me a lot of Jamaal Charles. Jones isn't as good a runner to the line of scrimmage as Dalvin, sure, I'm with you. But Jones creates big play lanes once he's to the second level as well as anyone in the NFL. He's not as good in a phonebooth as Cook, but his full-speed cut is elite. He can stop, start and accelerate about as well as any back in the league not named Saquon Barkley. He's beginning to stand out as a receiver, admittedly something Cook has also shown talent for. Basically this is all to say to me they're the same tier back. If you want to put Cook above Jones in that tier, sure, I'm fine with it. I'm not 100% sure where I fall on it myself. But I can't agree in anyway that they're a different tier of RB. Edited October 29, 2019 by MrBobGray 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, SSG said: Don't blame yeah, you don't have anything to stand on. There is nothing that supports the idea that Minnesota's rushing game is all Cook behind a bad line. You'd be ignoring every bit of statical evidence and the ridiculous improvement in their rushing attack this year. I'm not one to ignore stuff to make my opinion seem right. PFF grades, obviously not the be all end all (Overall grade)(Penalties/Sacks) Bradbury (51)(5/1)/Linsley (64.5)(2/3) Despite having the same number of bad plays and Linsley having allowed 2 more sacks, Linsley is 15 points higher. Bradbury sucks at everything, but especially as a run blocker. Kline (62.5)(0/1)/Turner (61.1)(2/3) Turner despite having allowed two more sacks and allowed 2 more penalties, still has essentially the same score. That's a big advantage in the running game. Elflein (69.1)(5/4)/Jenkins (69.4)(5/0) Elfein has basically the same score despite allowing 4 fewer sacks. That's a run lean to the Vikings. Oneil (72.6)(5/0)/Bulaga (75.5)(2/2) According to this Bulaga has allowed 2 more sacks, and one fewer bad play, but still has the same score. That's a lean to Bulaga in the run game. Reiff (71.5)(5/2)/Bakhtiari (71.8)(7/1) Basically a wash. Small lean to Reiff. Rudolph (60.9)/Lewis(71.3) Big numbers despite having similar receiving numbers. Edge to Lewis as a run blocker. +++ Additionally, Jones is seeing real workhorse carries for the first time in his career and his Y/C has dropped from 5.5 to 4.1. He hasn't gotten to 75 total yards in 4/8 games this year. While he's been electric in several, he also has been invisible in just as many. This is why you don't pay RBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 YoU HaVe NoThINg To StANd On Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Gotta wonder if Cook was hurt at the Combine. That was a trainwreck of a workout. I took him off my board altogether after that due to where he'd be taken vs the success of guys who show the explosion and C.O.D of an athletic OL and play RB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: PFF grades, obviously not the be all end all (Overall grade)(Penalties/Sacks) Bradbury (51)(5/1)/Linsley (64.5)(2/3) Despite having the same number of bad plays and Linsley having allowed 2 more sacks, Linsley is 15 points higher. Bradbury sucks at everything, but especially as a run blocker. Kline (62.5)(0/1)/Turner (61.1)(2/3) Turner despite having allowed two more sacks and allowed 2 more penalties, still has essentially the same score. That's a big advantage in the running game. Elflein (69.1)(5/4)/Jenkins (69.4)(5/0) Elfein has basically the same score despite allowing 4 fewer sacks. That's a run lean to the Vikings. Oneil (72.6)(5/0)/Bulaga (75.5)(2/2) According to this Bulaga has allowed 2 more sacks, and one fewer bad play, but still has the same score. That's a lean to Bulaga in the run game. Reiff (71.5)(5/2)/Bakhtiari (71.8)(7/1) Basically a wash. Small lean to Reiff. Rudolph (60.9)/Lewis(71.3) Big numbers despite having similar receiving numbers. Edge to Lewis as a run blocker. +++ Additionally, Jones is seeing real workhorse carries for the first time in his career and his Y/C has dropped from 5.5 to 4.1. He hasn't gotten to 75 total yards in 4/8 games this year. While he's been electric in several, he also has been invisible in just as many. This is why you don't pay RBs. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 Minnesota has their 6th highest ranked run blocking line with Green Bay coming in at 11. They have Minnesota ranked higher in every single run blocking category. Minnesota was their 23rd ranked run blocking line last year. While Bradbury obviously started the season out really bad, he's been any worse than Elflein was last year at Center. His addition also allowed Elflein to move too guard, where he's undeniably been an upgrade over last year. Aaron Jones isn 't seeing a work horse roll. His best 2 games as a rusher are the only 2 games that he's gotten more than 15 carries. He's gotten between 10 and 13 carries in every other game that he hasn't been a 100 yard rusher. Across the board, his rushing numbers have increased as his carries have increased. That's yards, yards per carry and the number of chunk rushing plays. Aaron Jones is our leading rusher, our leading receiver and almost the only player getting into the endzone over the last 4 games. When your RB is also your best receiver you pay the guy IMO. We're a 4 loss team this year without Jones given how unbelievably awful our WRs have been this year. We'll see what happens. Seeing that Aaron Jones is a significantly more productive as his carries increase I'd like to see a bigger workload. Jamaal Williams has played ok though so I doubt that happens. Would like to see more 2 RB sets with Jones lined up outside. I'd rather see him out there then M VS who's been an abomination as this team's #1 WR since Adams went down. Edited October 30, 2019 by SSG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It's just as well that Williams is available to make this more of a committee. Try to make Jones a workhorse and he will be a shell of himself come playoff time, if he's playing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Why are we arguing Cook vs Jones? When the moral of the story is, don't pay either of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Gotta wonder if Cook was hurt at the Combine. That was a trainwreck of a workout. I took him off my board altogether after that due to where he'd be taken vs the success of guys who show the explosion and C.O.D of an athletic OL and play RB. Same. Did he do a pro-day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, SSG said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 Minnesota has their 6th highest ranked run blocking line with Green Bay coming in at 11. They have Minnesota ranked higher in every single run blocking category. Minnesota was their 23rd ranked run blocking line last year. While Bradbury obviously started the season out really bad, he's been all that worse than Elflein was last year. His addition has also allowed Elflein to move too guard, where he's undeniably been an upgrade over last year. Aaron Jones isn 't seeing a work horse roll. His best 2 games as a rusher are the only 2 games that he's gotten more than 15 carries. He's gotten between 10 and 13 carries in every other game that he wasn't been a 100 yard rusher. Across the board, his rushing numbers have increased as his carries have increased. That's yards, yards per carry and the number of chunk rushing plays. Aaron Jones is our leading rusher, our leading receiver and almost the only player getting into the endzone over the last 4 games. When your RB is also your best receiver you pay the guy IMO. We're a 4 loss team this year without Jones given how unbelievably awful our WRs have been this year. We'll see what happens. Seeing that Aaron Jones is a significantly more productive as his carries increase I'd like to see a bigger workload. Jamaal Williams has played ok though so I doubt that happens. Would like to see more 2 RB sets with Jones lined up outside. I'd rather see him out there then M VS who's been an abomination as this team's #1 WR since Adams went down. So after looking at the link that you just posted, your argument is that the Vikings RBs (ranked 5th in 2nd level yards and 4th in open field yards) have a worse workhorse back than the Packers (15th in 2nd level yards and 26th in open field yards) You say this despite the link you posted having the RB Yardage for RBs being posted as: Vikings (5.24, ranked 3rd) and Packers (4.09, ranked 18th) +++ Jones is on pace for 2018 rushes. That would have had him at 11th in the league in carries last year. He's on pace for almost 300 touches. We're running the **** out of him. +++ If Williams gets the two goal line TDs against the Cowboys, are we even having this argument? I'm happy for Jones, I really am, but he's cracked 50 receiving yards twice this year. +++ Saying you want to see Aaron Jones split out at WR over MVS is nonsensical. Aaron Jones' ability to run routes and be open is entirely dependent on being isolated on a plodding ILB. Whether teams are willing to move a Safety to him will be an interesting development over the course of the next few games. Edited October 30, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: PFF grades, obviously not the be all end all (Overall grade)(Penalties/Sacks) Bradbury (51)(5/1)/Linsley (64.5)(2/3) Despite having the same number of bad plays and Linsley having allowed 2 more sacks, Linsley is 15 points higher. Bradbury sucks at everything, but especially as a run blocker. Didn’t see that coming with Bradbury. I thought he was going to be a plug and play rookie. Admittedly, that’s just from reading pundits on him. Edited October 30, 2019 by Arthur Penske Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: So after looking at the link that you just posted, your argument is that the Vikings RBs (ranked 5th in 2nd level yards and 4th in open field yards) have a worse workhorse back than the Packers (15th in 2nd level yards and 26th in open field yards) You say this despite the link you posted having the RB Yardage for RBs being posted as: Vikings (5.24, ranked 3rd) and Packers (4.09, ranked 18th) +++ Jones is on pace for 2018 rushes. That would have had him at 11th in the league in carries last year. He's on pace for almost 300 touches. We're running the **** out of him. +++ If Williams gets the two goal line TDs against the Cowboys, are we even having this argument? I'm happy for Jones, I really am, but he's cracked 50 receiving yards twice this year. +++ Saying you want to see Aaron Jones split out at WR over MVS is nonsensical. Aaron Jones' ability to run routes and be open is entirely dependent on being isolated on a plodding ILB. Whether teams are willing to move a Safety to him will be an interesting development over the course of the next few games. it looked like there were a few sets a jones out side and it forced the D into some odd formations to get a linebAcker out there. Idk if mvs was on the field. Edited October 30, 2019 by HokieHigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persiandud Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Love Aaron Jones. Hope he gets paid. Just not with us. Don't pay RBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 hours ago, persiandud said: Love Aaron Jones. Hope he gets paid. Just not with us. Don't pay RBs Don't want to break the bank for him. However, having a dual purpose back that gets utilized is pretty nice. We need other spots filled through the draft more than replacing him down the road. If he can be had for a good mid level amount ... do it. If he wants the moon, time to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 hours ago, SSG said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 Minnesota has their 6th highest ranked run blocking line with Green Bay coming in at 11. They have Minnesota ranked higher in every single run blocking category. Minnesota was their 23rd ranked run blocking line last year. While Bradbury obviously started the season out really bad, he's been any worse than Elflein was last year at Center. His addition also allowed Elflein to move too guard, where he's undeniably been an upgrade ovter last year. Aaron Jones isn 't seeing a work horse roll. His best 2 games as a rusher are the only 2 games that he's gotten more than 15 carries. He's gotten between 10 and 13 carries in every other game that he hasn't been a 100 yard rusher. Across the board, his rushing numbers have increased as his carries have increased. That's yards, yards per carry and the number of chunk rushing plays. Aaron Jones is our leading rusher, our leading receiver and almost the only player getting into the endzone over the last 4 games. When your RB is also your best receiver you pay the guy IMO. We're a 4 loss team this year without Jones given how unbelievably awful our WRs have been this year. We'll see what happens. Seeing that Aaron Jones is a significantly more productive as his carries increase I'd like to see a bigger workload. Jamaal Williams has played ok though so I doubt that happens. Would like to see more 2 RB sets with Jones lined up outside. I'd rather see him out there then M VS who's been an abomination as this team's #1 WR since Adams went down. Don't forget these numbers are affected by the defenses both teams have played this year. Willing to bet the Packers have played against a lot better run (and pass) defenses than the Vikings have. Let's take a look again down the road to see what the stats are. Cook has been darn good for the Vikings but that being said, Jones has been pretty frickin good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Lot of people already saying get rid of our second best play maker? Doesn't seem too smart to me. He's not going to get Zeke, Gurley or Bell money. I'm fine with giving the 26 year old with limited touches a second contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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