MOSteelers56 Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 We could get out from Ben's deal after next year I believe. That would cost us $12M in dead cap but it would save us a bunch. I could be wrong on that, I'm not very good with the contract stuff. I would take the out in his contract after next season. If he wants to come back he'd need to accept way less money because he's no longer worth $30M+. That's when we'd really need to start paying JuJu and Watt. Conner isn't a priority to me. He's been a bit too injury prone. I'd welcome him back on an affordable deal, but I wouldn't pay him top $. We should be alright for money in the future, I'd wager. Once Ben's contract is up, it doesn't really matter how much money we have tied up on the defense. We could have a QB on a rookie deal so that would save us a bunch. We need to avoid trying to sign stop-gap veteran QBs, though. I think that leads to the treadmill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Ben contract is the elephant in the room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, August4th said: Ben contract is the elephant in the room If duck keeps winning , and colbert is gone, will Ben still be here ? Arians could use a new QB and we could use a RD1 pick and keep the defence together for a few more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: We could get out from Ben's deal after next year I believe. That would cost us $12M in dead cap but it would save us a bunch. I could be wrong on that, I'm not very good with the contract stuff. I would take the out in his contract after next season. If he wants to come back he'd need to accept way less money because he's no longer worth $30M+. That's when we'd really need to start paying JuJu and Watt. Conner isn't a priority to me. He's been a bit too injury prone. I'd welcome him back on an affordable deal, but I wouldn't pay him top $. We should be alright for money in the future, I'd wager. Once Ben's contract is up, it doesn't really matter how much money we have tied up on the defense. We could have a QB on a rookie deal so that would save us a bunch. We need to avoid trying to sign stop-gap veteran QBs, though. I think that leads to the treadmill. CONTRACT TERMS:2 yr(s) / $68,000,000 SIGNING BONUS$37,500,000 AVERAGE SALARY$34,000,000 GTD AT SIGN:$37,500,000 TOTAL GTD:$37,500,000 FREE AGENT:2022 / UFA BONUS BREAKDOWN CAP DETAILS CASH DETAILS YEAR AGE BASE SALARY SIGNING ROSTER CAP HIT DEAD CAP YEARLY CASH 2019 37 $2,500,000 $18,700,000 $5,000,000 $26,200,000 $43,700,000 $45,000,000($45,000,000) 2020 38 $8,500,000 $12,500,000 $12,500,000 $33,500,000 $25,000,000 $21,000,000($66,000,000) POTENTIAL OUT: 2021, 2 YR, $66,000,000; $12,500,000 DEAD CAP 2021 39 $4,000,000 $12,500,000 $15,000,000 $31,500,000 $12,500,000 $19,000,000($85,000,000) 2022 40 UFA He wasn't worth $30M last season even without the drama, but the league overpays QB's more than anyone. I would prefer to move on, and keep this defence together for the next 4+ years anyways or most of it. for 2020 season I see the below Cap $33.5 dead cap $25 If he was traded would that save $8.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 We arent trading Ben. This season has proved that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) How trading Ben would go: Front office: “Hey, Ben. We are trading you to the....” Ben: “I’m retired”. Edited December 8, 2019 by Dcash4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Dcash4 said: How trading Ben would go: Front office: “Hey, Ben. We are trading you to the....” Ben: “I’m retired”. the only trade he would accept would be to play for Arians again, that's it. And then remember, the bucs won't have a QB either . So it makes sense IF they actually decide on keeping the defence together instead of the 38 year old QB returning after being on IR for the year. Not much cap relief, but that's what elite QB contracts do to teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I can't believe I'm seeing all this talk of 'how can we get away from Ben'...A future HOF QB who lead the league last year with 5100yds passing...don't you all get it?? For his few faults, he elevates the WR corps around him. No way Brown, Santonio, Wallace, Juju are anywhere near as good as they are without Ben. Look at the evidence. Look...if Ben doesn't come back 100% from his elbow injury, THEN would be the time to look into this, but I can't believe so many are so quickly ready to move on from Ben. He deserves to retire a Steeler; I'd hate to EVER see him in another uniform... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Wish people would stop claiming Arians would trade for Ben. Ben will be 38, coming off a serious injury, was declining before the injury, has a contract that makes him very hard to trade in 2020 for BOTH teams, and Ben isnt going to want to pick up his entire life here to move for likely only a year or two, to play for a team that still needs some work before its a serious playoff threat. Bucs will likely draft a QB next draft and franchise tag Jameis. And also stop overrating Duck. He has proven next to nothing. At most, right now, he looks like he could be a solid backup. Ben still gives us the best chance to win in 2020, and they arent going to unload his contract untll after 2020 AT THE EARLIEST. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Arians isnt a stupid OC. what people didnt like about Arians, as far as my old mind can remember is that he threw the ball too much, didnt utilize the run. Todd Haley was the exact opposite. Fichtner started as more of a poor man's Arians and now is grasping at straws. Arians was a great OC, just didnt match the personnel we had at the time. As a HC, Arians is actually one of the best in terms of mind at least. He makes decisions that have logic to them, dont always work out but still have good logic. He would NOT trade for Ben and I agree Ben would sooner retire than be traded. I wouldnt blame Ben at all. Part of me is sick of Ben as our QB, pretty sure you guys know that from my previous comments. My hope was that Rudolph would come in and prove he was the QB of the future. All he proved is that he definitely isnt. It proved that as much as I think Ben is beyond his prime, as much as I might not like it, the reality is he IS our best chance at success. But he also proves, being injured, that we need to find the future of our franchise sooner rather than later. Groom them behind Ben. Ben can teach a young guy a lot by his on field performance. But I dont think Mason Rudolph has the mind of an NFL starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: Wish people would stop claiming Arians would trade for Ben. Ben will be 38, coming off a serious injury, was declining before the injury, has a contract that makes him very hard to trade in 2020 for BOTH teams, and Ben isnt going to want to pick up his entire life here to move for likely only a year or two, to play for a team that still needs some work before its a serious playoff threat. Bucs will likely draft a QB next draft and franchise tag Jameis. And also stop overrating Duck. He has proven next to nothing. At most, right now, he looks like he could be a solid backup. Ben still gives us the best chance to win in 2020, and they arent going to unload his contract untll after 2020 AT THE EARLIEST. I agree with this. Duck HAS proved he can help us win football games. Having said that, the point you're making and I support 100% is that he has NOT proved just how good he really is or isnt. I do want us to give him a cheap 3-4 year contract and keep him as a backup but I think his ceiling is Charlie Batch, which I'd be comfortable with because Batch was one of the best backups in the NFL imo. I dont think Hodges is a guy who can be the focal point of an offense but he can still be a leader and be part of the reason you win or lose, he just wont be THE reason imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbrunn Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 All I know is this guy can be that x factor in the slot for this D ... Mike Hilton that can cover and make plays on the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 On 12/6/2019 at 8:09 PM, JustPlainNasty said: If the Bud behavior and character that we see this year is what they will get going forward, then they should definitely be resigning him. Expect it to be in the 5 yr 70 million range with about 32 to 36 guaranteed. In order to do that they most definitely would have to cut the overpaid and unreliable Vance McDonald as well as Mark Barron. Figuring they will re-sign Nick Vannett to something in the area of 3-4 yrs for 12-15 million. Not sure on that one but its ballparking numbers. Hargrave would be tough to fit in with all other future needs but is possible. Id prefer them not to overpay / over compromise their future position. Id assume Finney is gonna walk to get paid. Gotta compromise and not unlike Hubbard you cant pay everybody unless Foster retires or is cut but dont quite see that happening. Leki Fotu -DT - Utah along with Devonta Smith - WR - Alabama would be two of the players that I feel could make a difference both in the short and long term and be great fits as far as team needs and possible 2nd round values. Another prospect that I believe could be good value Brycen Hopkins- TE -Purdue. Good ability to separate and goods soft hands in traffic and in the open. Is a good blocker in space, is aggressive on every play with and without the ball in his hands. Be excited to get him in the 3rd, only concern is the Steelers late pick in the 3rd may be too late. I wouldnt be upset to get him in the second but would definitely prefer the other two difference makers . Sadly, I see a lot of what you are saying to be 'solid bets' on how we will proceed, but it's not how I would go forward. First and Foremost--we need a new GM before the draft, IMO. I do not want anymore decisions about our future coming from a GM who won't be here to see the 'fallout' from after this draft. So, with that said, maybe we'll see some 'surprises'... I believe there are only a 'few' players that are absolutely irreplaceable, and everyone else can 'go', for all I care. Also, new GM often times means new QB...soon. I think Ben comes back and is absolutely our starter next season, but along with WR, RB, and Edge, this draft is deep with solid, gifted QB prospects through the 4th Rd...guys like Mason Rudolph, but mentally 'tougher'. So I believe a QB will be one of our top 4 picks...(2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th), and depending upon which declare, and where we select, I count a likely 7-8 QBs in this class, with better long-term potential than what we have on the roster, and assuming 3 of them will be out of reach before our selection in the 2nd, QBs like Eason. Hurts, Fromm, and Love would be nice viable options in the 2nd-3rd. If, by the time we are selecting our 2nd, 4th Rd pick, we have yet to select one, and the above are all gone, I'd still feel better about our future QB if we selected Jamie Newman, Nate Stanley, Anthony Gordon, or K.J. Costello over what we have, tbh. Regarding players I feel are 'must keeps', the only ones I feel strongly about are: Watt, Minkah, Heyward, Tuitt, Villanueva, DD, Finney (we sign him, regardless the cost) and Bush... ...with other priority players, for various reasons, though not 'untouchable' are: Hargrave, Nelson, Edmunds, Juju, Diontae, Washington, Hilton, and Sutton. Then, I say let Dupree go; do not overpay him to stay, unless, of course, he's willing to sign a sub-$10M-per contract...I'm actually comfortable with going into 2020 with Ola, Skipper, and a rookie. I don't deny that Bud has had a HUGE season, but we can;t pay BOTH Bud and Watt, and Watt is simply more valuable. Then, if we can turn Pouncey, Haden, Foster, and one of our young WRs. into a 3rd and/or 4th Rd pick somehow, I say we do it. This draft, IMO, is one of the deepest, and most talented classes to come around in nearly a decade, and here we are with what, 6 total picks, and no 1st? Don't get me wrong--the Minkah trade was absolutely worth it, but it doesn't mean that having no 1st isn't a bitter pill to swallow. We need to 're-tool' this team, and get some top young talent, and I think this is the ideal draft to do it, so let go of some of our older quality talent, and get a few picks. Having a 2nd, 2 x 3rds, and 2 x 4ths, I think we could walk away with one of the best Steelers' classes in a decade (counting Minkah as our 1st , of course.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I've got to say, @Ward4HOF, I disagree with just about everything you laid out there. I really hope none of that happens. How is Finney "untouchable" and JuJu isn't? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 The Steelers are all in the next few seasons..they aren’t going to start selling off starters for mid rd picks...that needs to happen in a few years but not now. They aren’t blowing up the defense that could be even deadlier with a healthy Tuitt and another year of Edmunds development. Theyre going to resign 1 of Bud/Hargraves...figure out LG and try to add another weapon on offense with a healthy Big Ben with an extension or 2, a few obvious cuts and restructures...The End. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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