Draft Approach

[3rivers]

8 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I mean, I sort of do. It's not like he is having a monster year. He might hit 8 or 9 sacks on the season. Shaq Barrett already has 10.

I have gotten this impression at times that Bud Dupree is somewhat lazy with his craft, now maybe I am way off. But If I'm not then it makes sense that he is doing well this year because it is all about the pay day. After he gets paid he wont have to try anymore.

I forgot to add that often dupree is playing in a 4 man front with Tuitt, Heyward and Watt. PFF has those 3 are at the top (Watt) or near the top. IOW, dupree is surrounded not by good talent, but by elite talent.  dupree's on pace for 8 sacks and 2FF, nothing special at all, and this pace is based on who we have played so far, which were good teams mostly, but some others weren't good .  Booger mentioned it a few times " a contract season" , when he was talking about dupree.  

He might have been lazy at times, but also might have been able to fall back on athleticism too often in the past. I have seen dupree jog around in games when he should run so the word lazy isn't out of context here, but that could apply to the majority of the defenders today anyways.   Watching NCAA footage of him and jarvis, I would conclude jarvis was the better NCAA player but he was lazy in the pro's. At least dupree has tried to get better, but really isn't much better and that's despite having elite players ALL ACROSS his DL . More athletic obviously, but not much more productive

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Snell out for a few weeks after knee Surgery in his rookie season and James Conner struggles to stay healthy..

CJ Anderson, no draft pick, proven quality RB, this is a no brainer.  Could they sign him to a 2 year deal? The price shouldn't be costly either, maybe add incentives in case he does play more than expected, that would be fair. 

 

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Dupree is likely going to require 12-14M a year. He isnt worth that.

I can't see how this is even a consideration . Is it because he was given the 5th year option and whoever signs him has to give him an average  deal at a t least a certain % higher than the 5th year option ? This doesn't make sense, a mediocre edge  defender getting elite CB $ in todays game. Based on play, I wouldn't expect more than $7M per season, and that's generous.

 

8 hours ago, Chieferific said:

If this is Dupree trying his hardest and playing his best, he can be replaced. 

this too, if in fact he was lazy and now is playing better , then agree with the above and thought that the entire time anyways. I just don't get the hype, never have, the announcers are wrong on this . Talk about Watt,  some finally are but he was much better than dupree from day 1 and that was obvious. Same with Tuitt, elite, but never got the recognition he deserved, but most here knew this.

 

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

Pouncey and Foster have looked like crap.

Pouncey is PFF 2nd WORST centre in the NFL

[VigilantZombie]

Yeah it drives me nuts. I like listening to Alex Kazora and Dave Bryan on the Terrible Podcast, but they talk about the Oline as a strength. It's not been atrocious but they have not played as good as they had been in the past. Feiler was mediocre in the first half of the Dolphins game. Pouncey and Foster have been terrible. AV is average, I honestly hope they dont extend him but they will

[Dcash4]

I think we made a mistake bringing back Foster this year and not extending BJ to a more "team friendly" deal. Now I think we are stuck with only lesser options. Finney is going to want starter money and his best bet is FA bidding, so we wont be getting a discount. If we let him walk, we are left with 1 year of Foster at $5M cap hit and no backup center. 

This is the stuff I care far more about with Colbert than whether or not he hits in the 6th round. Could have kept a younger, starting quality guard at a better rate and saved $3M this year and $5M next year. 

If I am BJ Finneys agent, he's not a Steeler next year. 

[VigilantZombie]

Honestly I disagree with your last sentence DCash because if I am the Steelers I am cutting Foster and signing Finney to a long term deal in the offseason tbh

[Dcash4]

2 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Honestly I disagree with your last sentence DCash because if I am the Steelers I am cutting Foster and signing Finney to a long term deal in the offseason tbh

Yes, you are looking at it from the Steelers perspective, and Im sure they want him back and signed. Look at it from Finneys teams point of view. 

Most likely will get more money on the open market. Steelers could have made BJ a starter this year, but instead he is going into his age 29 season as a FA. He needs to max his money now, because this is the only big contract he will have a chance at. The Steelers kept him as cheap insurance (as was their right) for 3 years on RFA prices. They had a chance to extend him this year and make him their long term starter, but instead, decided to pay the RFA cost as an insurance policy again behind Foster. 

Im getting my client top dollar, because this is his first chance at UFA and this will be his first and only chance for big money. If the Steelers are willing to pay top dollar, lets roll. But my best bet is to hit FA and see what happens. Lotta need for OL in the NFL. 

 

[kurgan]

20 hours ago, 3rivers said:

what are the types of deals you expect them to get from other teams anyways? Finney has been a reserve, with limited playing, so that is the estimate I am most interested in. Dupree has played most of  the 5 years, and there is a chance a team overpays such a player especially with "athleticism and potential etc"

Would you still try to sign Skipper or maybe trade a late pick for him? It's easy to pool later round picks, it might be worth it considering they already had him here and knows he suits their scheme etc

According to contracts handed out last year, projected from this year, and estimates from other sources (Including Steelers Depot), Dupree is looking at 15+ AAV for a muli-year (God, I hope we don't tag him and have that headache), Hargrave is 12-14 AAV long term, and I would guess Finney would be 6-8 ish (Old Mother Hubbard got 7.5 from the Browns) AAV for a longer term.  I'd also gather that he would want to not be a backup swing guy anymore, and wants to hold down a spot.  The Depot guys said that there are 10 teams he could start for right now, and I can totally see that.  I would guess even more, especially with the lack of high level players in the IOL in the league right now.

 

Again, I would want to keep Hargrave/Finney (over Foster) but that is NOT the Steeler way.  They are not going to pay Hargrave that much to play 50% of snaps (he would have to show he can play more and be a real backup to DE), and I don't think that Foster is done, and that may be the only way that he leaves Pitt.  So, I would most likely see a long term Dupree contract over all other options.  Again, if he were to leave, we have a gaping hole at OLB.

Even the guys on the Podcast said they wouldn't pay him that much, but there isn't much of an option at this point.  I mean, don't pay him and then what??  A rookie, a washed up cheap vet, Chick and Ola are holding down the fort.  It is not ideal in any way, but it is reality.

 

I also wouldn't mess with Skipper again... I mean we had a shot to put him on the 53 and passed for a reason.  He is not in the plans.  Also, I would not mess with RB.  This league has shown that they can be gotten when you need them.

[Chieferific]

5 hours ago, jebrick said:

I think replacing Dupree is harder than you state.  If it were true the Steelers would be flush with OLB talent. 

 

Dupree is very high on QB pressures this season.  He is getting much better when he is single blocked.

I think we could see OG or OC earlier than we would think in this draft.  Pouncey and Foster have looked like crap.

A little tongue in cheek there. I'm not as hard on him as most but he is deffinately upgradable. Another 3 year contract is going to be hard to stomach. 

[VigilantZombie]

We will find out how good Dupree actually is this week this will be the best OL he will face all season. If he cant do anything against them, he isnt worth a big contract.

[MOSteelers56]

6 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

We will find out how good Dupree actually is this week this will be the best OL he will face all season. If he cant do anything against them, he isnt worth a big contract.

I think people are going to have to just accept that we're probably going to bring Bud back. Who else is going to play OLB for us? Relying on Chick and Ola sounds like a fairly terrible idea. I think we should attempt to retain as many pieces from the defense as possible. Of course, I'd rather have Hargrave, but he's easier to replace than Bud would be. 

[mwalker]

40 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think people are going to have to just accept that we're probably going to bring Bud back. Who else is going to play OLB for us? Relying on Chick and Ola sounds like a fairly terrible idea. I think we should attempt to retain as many pieces from the defense as possible. Of course, I'd rather have Hargrave, but he's easier to replace than Bud would be. 

You could find a cheaper alternative in FA, betting that they at least give you similar production - 
then draft two Edge players in rounds 2,3. Not saying that's what they will or should do, but you could.
We used to draft two OLBs almost every year a while back.

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think people are going to have to just accept that we're probably going to bring Bud back. Who else is going to play OLB for us? Relying on Chick and Ola sounds like a fairly terrible idea. I think we should attempt to retain as many pieces from the defense as possible. Of course, I'd rather have Hargrave, but he's easier to replace than Bud would be. 

If we bring Bud back at 12M+ I want Colbert fired. He is not that good. 

Chickillo, Bud, they can both be gone Frankly Ola can go too. If they thought he was the answer he would be getting playing time. 

You draft an OLB and sign a mid level guy for far cheaper in FA. You dont pay a 1 hit wonder a superstar contract. 

Especially when you consider JuJu is probably gonna get a deal around $18M/yr

[3rivers]

 

3 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I want Colbert fired

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001071704/article/leveon-bell-steelers-packers-tried-to-trade-for-me

and I would expect you to have cardiac arrest if he traded a few more high picks back for bell . I couldn't believe this when I read it, maybe it's just bell feeding his ego once again?

3 hours ago, wwhickok said:

You dont pay a 1 hit wonder a superstar contract. 

thing is, he isn't even that. He is on pace for 8 sacks and 2FF.  Average the pay of such players that get those stats on a similar snap count

AND THAT HAS 3 OTHER ELITE DL NEXT TO HIM

 

5 hours ago, wwhickok said:

We will find out how good Dupree actually is this week this will be the best OL he will face all season. If he cant do anything against them, he isnt worth a big contract.

whit worth will school him unless for some reason whit gets off the snap slowly. Whit is still a top level OT, I expect dupree to get shutdown unless stunted or gets garbage sacks of of course is the benefit of the 2 elite DL he has out there with him. 

[skywlker32]

15 hours ago, mwalker said:

You could find a cheaper alternative in FA, betting that they at least give you similar production - 
then draft two Edge players in rounds 2,3. Not saying that's what they will or should do, but you could.
We used to draft two OLBs almost every year a while back.

They have:

• 1 2nd round pick
• maybe a 3rd round pick
• 2 4th round picks
• 1 6th round pick
• 1 7th round pick

They don't have the draft capital to waste 2 picks on their first 2 picks (if they even get a 3rd round comp.). They have needs at CB, NT, OG and OC (depth), WR, and could use another ILB in no order. I just don't see any way they go OLB back to back at the top of the draft with those needs. I could see an early pick and a late pick, but the first two picks is being unreasonable in this situation.

[oksteeler]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:05 AM, Dcash4 said:

I think we made a mistake bringing back Foster this year and not extending BJ to a more "team friendly" deal. Now I think we are stuck with only lesser options. Finney is going to want starter money and his best bet is FA bidding, so we wont be getting a discount. If we let him walk, we are left with 1 year of Foster at $5M cap hit and no backup center. 

This is the stuff I care far more about with Colbert than whether or not he hits in the 6th round. Could have kept a younger, starting quality guard at a better rate and saved $3M this year and $5M next year. 

If I am BJ Finneys agent, he's not a Steeler next year. 

I sadly completely agree with your evaluation here. With that in mind, hopefully they draft a powerful center (Creed Humphrey OU or Lloyd Cushenberry LSU or ?) that can start at guard over Foster and move to center the following year to replace Pouncey. This allows them to upgrade the line one position at a time. Usually when NFL teams attempt to upgrade multiple line positions in the same year it turns out badly.

As for wide receiver, I think it is critical to use a high to mid round pick on a speedy physical guy. (Denzel Mims of Baylor 6'3" fast and good hands, Collin Johnson of Texas or Gabriel Davis of UCF).  Two of the three should be available in the third or maybe fourth round.

[3rivers]

23 hours ago, wwhickok said:

We will find out how good Dupree actually is this week this will be the best OL he will face all season. If he cant do anything against them, he isnt worth a big contract.

costanzo isn't that good IMO, decent since Q arrived though. Agree that if/when dupree plays better OL, it's the time to more seriously evaluate.  Piling up stats vs sub par OL doesn't do any good for those that notice.