dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I like to look at all options when assessing whether the right decisions were made. If you had 3 crappy options then making a bad decision is likely and almost a given. If you have 2/3 good options and make the only bad option available, then you are an idiot. That doesn't follow. It turned out that two of the guys were good and one was bad. But given information available at time they were all three relatively high potential busts as prospects. Any of one of them could have made you an "idiot" or a genius. -MT didn't have any experience -Watson played just like 100 mobile college guys before him who busted out. -Mahomes was from Leach tree that had a 100% bust rate to that date. Everyone is a potential bust, but some more so than others. Off top of my head only Elway, P. Manning and A. Luck were seen as near sure fire NFL hits coming out. Maybe Drew Bledsoe too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, dll2000 said: That doesn't follow. It turned out that two of the guys were good and one was bad. But given information available at time they were all three relatively high potential busts as prospects. Any of one of them could have made you an "idiot" or a genius. -MT didn't have any experience -Watson played just like 100 mobile college guys before him who busted out. -Mahomes was from Leach tree that had a 100% bust rate to that date. Everyone is a potential bust, but some more so than others. Off top of my head only Elway, P. Manning and A. Luck were seen as near sure fire NFL hits coming out. Maybe Drew Bledsoe too. In the NFL you do not get assessed based on process you get assessed based on results. If you follow a good process that is great it increases your chances of success, but the result is all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, WindyCity said: In the NFL you do not get assessed based on process you get assessed based on results. If you follow a good process that is great it increases your chances of success, but the result is all that matters. Of course. But it doesn't make you an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Bill Walsh. Was seen as greatest QB evaluator of his era and rightfully so. He found and developed Joe Montana. He touted Giovanni Carmazzi as next great QB and passed on Tom Brady. Doesn't make him an idiot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 QB is hardest position to evaluate in all of sports. Even given that there are a 1000 players that possibly could have been great had they been given opportunity or been with a different coach or developed differently. Sometimes you just get lucky or have bad luck and it has little to do with evaluative skill. I firmly believe given choice Andy Reid would have taken MT over Mahomes. He got lucky that Bears took MT instead. It just works out that way some times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Now we are comparing ourselves to the Browns? If the best comparisons we can make for Pace is that he has put himself in the same situation as the Browns and Jags then he should probably be fired. Missing on a top 10 QB is crippling to a team. It is not simply something that you bounce back from. I would expect if Mayfield does bust out that it very well could cost Dorsey his job. No I am comparing Pace to Dorsey who is a well respected executive in this league known for his eye for offensive talent. I'm saying it's not an easy task to pick a franchise QB. Case in point, Lamar Jackson, who is now making the Browns, Jets and possibly Bills look foolish for passing on him for Mayfield, Darnold and Allen. He already made the Cardinals look bad with the Rosen pick but they have admitted their mistake and have Kyler now so they get a pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Also we will never know how Mahomes or Watson would have faired in Chicago. First year no QB could have succeeded because O lacked talent. Maybe Watson would have looked good, but he tore his ACL. If he tore his ACL in Chicago who knows what happens after that? Mahomes came out of the gate throwing nothing but INTS in practice and looked horrible. Imagine that with Chicago media and way national media reports on Chicago? Imagine how that would have effected his pscyhe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Well respected and winning are different. I am not sure why people have faith in Ryan Pace? 2 years ago we all talked about how Pace was tied to Trubisky and that is Trubisky busted that it should cost Pace his job. Trading for Mack and making the playoffs once should not change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: Well respected and winning are different. I am not sure why people have faith in Ryan Pace? 2 years ago we all talked about how Pace was tied to Trubisky and that is Trubisky busted that it should cost Pace his job. Trading for Mack and making the playoffs once should not change that. I think many in media said he was tied to Trubisky and that is probably the reality. I think many here said they respected that he "went for it" regardless of how it turns out. Tough to hold to that when it doesn't pan out positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I think many in media said he was tied to Trubisky and that is probably the reality. I think many here said they respected that he "went for it" regardless of how it turns out. Tough to hold to that when it doesn't pan out positively. Again, your are judged by results not process. I respected him going all in. He missed and that has crippled the franchise. The result is what matters, because that is what we need to dig out of now. That is why we are losing games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Well respected and winning are different. I am not sure why people have faith in Ryan Pace? 2 years ago we all talked about how Pace was tied to Trubisky and that is Trubisky busted that it should cost Pace his job. Trading for Mack and making the playoffs once should not change that. I don't have "faith" in Pace. But I watch a lot of NFL GMs and I would say Pace is in top 10 and intelligent enough to get better. When you make a change it doesn't mean things get better. Things can always get worse. Pace is best GM Bears have had in my lifetime. His biggest decisions didn't work out and it is a big thumb on scale. But bringing in someone else would likely result in an inferior (to Pace) GM. But yes his track record on evaluating QBs is not good. I am torn on it to be honest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I think many in media said he was tied to Trubisky and that is probably the reality. I think many here said they respected that he "went for it" regardless of how it turns out. Tough to hold to that when it doesn't pan out positively. I am not happy with how it turned and all Bears fans shouldn't be but I don't see how you can hate on Pace for doing what he did. He missed but it wasn't for a lack of trying. His QB decisions were made before he brought in Nagy. I would give him 1 more year to figure it out with Nagy and if things don't look much better at this time next year then you move on at the end of 2020 and start completely fresh. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I don't have "faith" in Pace. But I watch a lot of NFL GMs and I would say Pace is in top 10 and intelligent enough to get better. When you make a change it doesn't mean things get better. Things can always get worse. Pace is best GM Bears have had in my lifetime. His biggest decisions didn't work out and it is a big thumb on scale. But bringing in someone else would likely result in an inferior (to Pace) GM. But yes his track record on evaluating QBs is not good. I am torn on it to be honest. Based on what? He is better than Emery and Angelo, I will give him that, but that is meaningless because those guys sucked. QB is what matters. You can make beautiful mashed potatoes as asparagus, but if you burn my steak what is the point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, topwop1 said: I am not happy with how it turned and all Bears fans shouldn't be but I don't see how you can hate on Pace for doing what he did. He missed but it wasn't for a lack of trying. His QB decisions were made before he brought in Nagy. I would give him 1 more year to figure it out with Nagy and if things don't look much better at this time next year then you move on at the end of 2020 and start completely fresh. It's as simple as that. Because I assess results. His miss at QB is what limited last season and what has cost us this season. This is the NFL you do not get points for trying. I am not sure what Pace has done to earn a 2nd shot at QB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, topwop1 said: I am not happy with how it turned and all Bears fans shouldn't be but I don't see how you can hate on Pace for doing what he did. He missed but it wasn't for a lack of trying. His QB decisions were made before he brought in Nagy. I would give him 1 more year to figure it out with Nagy and if things don't look much better at this time next year then you move on at the end of 2020 and start completely fresh. It's as simple as that. I still dig Pace's approach, and he did deliver us some exciting times and a great 2018. It's fair to accept that drafting anyone has a lot of risk and the effects are magnified twice when it's both a high pick and a QB The only reason he should be fired is so the next GM can pick their QB, and I don't think we're there yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.