vegas492 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: Yeah, but you could have compared him to a 100 other guys that played at big time programs who did similar great things playing with great players over the last 20 - 30 years. It turns out he was legit good, but it was hard to tell based on his play style and the way they dominated most teams. I don't agree with that. Watson went to 2 Collegiate Championship games in two years and put up huge numbers in both against Alabama. Those other guys were more or less flash in the pan kind of guys. Watson did it at a very high level for a long period of time. That's the difference to me. I want to say that Watson even finished his degree in three years. Telling yah, he had it all. To help you with your point, though, I'd point to Matt Leinert. I thought he had the brain and the arm to get it done. He did it multiple years. While I was and am a huge Watson fan, he's (Leinert) the one that was similar in my book and he too failed. Judging quarterbacks is tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 We all said that if Trubisky busted it would cost Pace his job. We all said it when he traded up and picked him. What happened to trade for that? He trade for Khalil Mack, which was the biggest no brainer move in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I do not actually think Pace is an idiot. I think that he cannot evaluate QB talent at all. If you cannot evaluate QB talent you are useless to me because that is what is killing this team. If I am having a heart attack [QB position] please do not take me to an orthopedic surgeon [Pace]. If he can't find a QB that is a problem. Agreed. But Nagy picked Daniel and probably Bray right or had a very strong hand in it. Pace has really only just picked MT and a place holder journeyman, who may have been hand picked by Fox to placate him into thinking they would at least take a minimal shot at winning that year. So Pace has had one shot at QB and missed. That could happen to anyone. You have to think since Pace is married to Nagy, then it would be a joint decision going forward on next QB with Nagy having vast majority of say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, dll2000 said: If he can't find a QB that is a problem. Agreed. But Nagy picked Daniel and probably Bray right or had a very strong hand in it. Pace has really only just picked MT and a place holder journeyman, who may have been hand picked by Fox to placate him into thinking they would at least take a minimal shot at winning that year. So Pace has had one shot at QB and missed. That could happen to anyone. You have to think since Pace is married to Nagy, then it would be a joint decision going forward on next QB with Nagy having vast majority of say. He paid Glennon 18 million dollars and he could not play at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: I wanted Watson first myself, but I think that there was a very legitmate concern over both his injury past and potential, think that might have scared Pace a bit. If GM's get "scared" they shouldn't be GM's. It's the nature of the business. I do get what you are saying though. If all things are equal, you take the guy that is safe. But Pace didn't show that at all. He took the guy with clearly less on his resume and less in the skill department. And he traded up for him. But...I'm also in the boat that thinks Mitch can be saved. But it isn't in Chicago. If he goes somewhere as a backup and learns from a QB guru as a HC or OC, he's still got a chance. But everything needs to be just right for him. There is a reason why Jimmy G and Brisset have found success. They both watched how things get done with a great coach. Little things. Accountability. Doing your job...etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 25 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Could have been worse. You could have drafted Kizer. Or traded a quality secondary player for him. Drafting Kizer in round 2 =/= trading up for then drafting Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson Trading a decent S for Kizer =/= trading up for then drafting Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, WindyCity said: He paid Glennon 18 million dollars and he could not play at all. And allegedly wanted Mariota, another bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I don't agree with that. Watson went to 2 Collegiate Championship games in two years and put up huge numbers in both against Alabama. Those other guys were more or less flash in the pan kind of guys. Watson did it at a very high level for a long period of time. That's the difference to me. I want to say that Watson even finished his degree in three years. Telling yah, he had it all. To help you with your point, though, I'd point to Matt Leinert. I thought he had the brain and the arm to get it done. He did it multiple years. While I was and am a huge Watson fan, he's (Leinert) the one that was similar in my book and he too failed. Judging quarterbacks is tough. It wasn't just Leinhart everyone at USC in those Carrol years was gang busters. Utah, Ohio State and Florida could play anyone at QB under Urban and look good. Every QB under Spurrier for years put up huge numbers. BYU same back in day. There has probably never been a better college QB than Ty Detmer. Mike Leach can make virtually any QB in college good. In college Watson was making simple reads, had an okay arm and wasn't that fast. Aside from perhaps Alabama his team was head and shoulders above every team he played. He also took wild chances with his body. Watson had huge bust potential. When Watson came to NFL, he immediately went to progression reads and did great. Who knew he would be able to do that? Was it coaching? Was it him? Would another team been able to get that from him? Almost everyone can do it on a white board. It tells you nothing. AND he still got hurt like most predicted he would. Would he have lost confidence if he didn't have one of best hands receiver in history of the league to erase mistakes early and win every 50/50 ball? What if he threw a bunch of picks and then got hurt and everyone in a major market was calling him bust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Trubisky is arguably the biggest draft bust in the last 30 years for the Bears. We are arguing about keeping the guy who picked him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, WindyCity said: Trubisky is arguably the biggest draft bust in the last 30 years for the Bears. We are arguing about keeping the guy who picked him. Because that is an easy miss to make. Plus, Bears aren't going to fire Pace in next 2 years so arguing that is a waste of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Trubisky is arguably the biggest draft bust in the last 30 years for the Bears. We are arguing about keeping the guy who picked him. If he doesn't get it figured out in the next year and a half then he absolutely deserves to be fired and that will go down as the reason. No one is arguing that. People are just saying it's a bit premature to call for his firing at this moment in time. Give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, dll2000 said: It wasn't just Leinhart everyone at USC in those Carrol years was gang busters. Utah, Ohio State and Florida could play anyone at QB under Urban and look good. Every QB under Spurrier for years put up huge numbers. BYU same back in day. There has probably never been a better college QB than Ty Detmer. Mike Leach can make virtually any QB in college good. In college Watson was making simple reads, had an okay arm and wasn't that fast. Aside from perhaps Alabama his team was head and shoulders above every team he played. He also took wild chances with his body. Watson had huge bust potential. When Watson came to NFL, he immediately went to progression reads and did great. Who knew he would be able to do that? Was it coaching? Was it him? Would another team been able to get that from him? Almost everyone can do it on a white board. It tells you nothing. AND he still got hurt like most predicted he would. Would he have lost confidence if he didn't have one of best hands receiver in history of the league to erase mistakes early and win every 50/50 ball? What if he threw a bunch of picks and then got hurt and everyone in a major market was calling him bust? I think you are vastly underrating his arm coming out. And his decision making. And not taking into account success in 2 National Championship games in a row. As an underdog. Clemson hadn't won a National Championship in like 30 years before him. I could name you about a 100 QB's that translated to the NFL better than Detmer. But...your point is well taken considering the "stats" argument and QB success in the NFL. Detmer had a lolipop for an arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Options. Keep everyone. Mitch. Pace. Nagy. Pray for improvement from Mitch. Keep Nagy. Keep Mitch. Dump Pace. Not a good look at all. New GM will ultimately want a new coach. New coach will want "his" quarterback. Keep Pace. Keep Nagy. Dump MItch. Either bench him or cut him. Get a new quarterback. This seems to be the "sane" route. Give Pace another kick at the can and get input from Nagy as to which quarterback he would like that can actually be had. I fear the Bears team, big time, if they can find a way to get Foles on that roster. Get him, draft offensive lineman and see what happens for a year. Then judge Pace/Nagy. This is not necessarily what I would do, but what I am pretty sure is going to happen: I think Pace and Nagy are going nowhere for at least 2 years. I think the only question is how long MT stays. I think he stays until end of 2019 at which time Nagy/Pace pick a new QB for Bears - probably Foles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I think you are vastly underrating his arm coming out. And his decision making. And not taking into account success in 2 National Championship games in a row. As an underdog. Clemson hadn't won a National Championship in like 30 years before him. I could name you about a 100 QB's that translated to the NFL better than Detmer. But...your point is well taken considering the "stats" argument and QB success in the NFL. Detmer had a lolipop for an arm. You are right I did underrate his arm coming out and his decision making. But remember his guys were wide open so much it's hard to evaluate. Not that I spent a lot of time on him. I thought for sure Bears weren't taking a QB in 2017 and waiting until 'loaded class of 2018'. I was looking at the DBs. Clemson was down a long time, but those recent teams were loaded across board. I still would have rated him a first round QB. Not like I hated him. I just think he wasn't a sure thing. I said MT had huge bust potential too. I wrote a really long piece somewhere before draft that said MT was biggest boom or bust prospect in the draft. Highest ceiling and lowest floor. Edited October 29, 2019 by dll2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACK2MACKSACK Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) Overall, I like Ryan Pace. I take a look how he transformed this defensive unit which lacked identity and became devoid of talent after we lost Urlacher, Briggs, Tillman, and Peppers. He went out and acquired Trevathan who was a solid player in Denver and became a backbone of this defense. He got Hicks who was good but now plays like a pro bowler. He traded to get Mack. Drafted Jackson, Amos, and other solid starters. He also revamped the offensive side by having a good core of weapons as far as RBs and WRs. When looking at a GM I like to see improvement in decision making year to year. We had a bad year this year but I also felt that we weren't as good as our last year's record would indicate. I say give Pace this offseason to draft and make some acquisitions and see how our team fares in 2020. Even though he failed at picking the QB, in that draft many teams failed. Other teams picks: #3 Solomon Thomas DE by SF, #4 Leonard Fournette RB (spend that high of a draft pick on a RB with that return on investment), #5 Corey Davis WR (he's OK but is he worth a high draft pick), #9 John Ross WR (Considering their QB is Dalton). And then KC traded up to get Mahomes. Same thing happened with Watson two picks later. There is no telling how many teams would have passed on these QBs if the trades weren't made. I just want to see how Pace rebounds from a disappointing season before I decide what to do with him. Edited October 29, 2019 by BACK2MACKSACK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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