topwop1 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, WindyCity said: If they exercise Mitch's option they should all be fired. That would be the stupidest thing I have ever seen done. 24 million dollar backup. Agreed it wouldn't look smart as things stand but let's talk hypothetical. Say Mitch goes on to finish this year strong and shows a lot of promise. Would exercising his 5th year in this case be stupid if he goes on to have a good season in 2020, so that essentially his 5th year option year acts as a prove it again season before they decide if they want to commit a multi million dollar contract to him? Because let's say they don't exercise it and he goes on to have a really good year in 2020. The team is then faced with the decision of franchise tagging him at the of the top-5 NFL QB salaries or giving him a multi year deal at that point, whereas the 5th year option would be little less of a cost at average of top-10 NFL QB salaries. It's a trickier scenario than we think. If they exercise the 5th year option, remember that it is guaranteed for injury only, so I believe they can still release him prior to it kicking in at the start of the new league year in 2021 with no cap ramifications as long as he's not hurt, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, topwop1 said: Alex Smith would be a good option but I am not trading for him under his current contract. If Washington waived him and he becomes a FA then sure sign him to a 1-year deal as a mentor/backup who can start if needed, but he has a lot of questions marks right now with his health and if he will actually ever play again. Trading for him under the current conditions is a huge risk to take on for a guy with injury concerns and who will be 36 years old by the start of next season and I am not sure Pace will be given the leeway from upper management to take on a multi year QB contract in 2020 in what could be his last year as Bears GM if things don't get turned around. I also think it's very risky to exercise Mitch's option year without knowing if he is good enough to be the starter beyond 2020. If they do that then he is not going to be riding pine behind anyone IMO. A trade if any wouldn't take place until next spring and even if Wash. released him they would still end up paying out on his guaranteed money less any offset money provided that clause is even in the contract. So I would say it's probably 50/50 at best they release him. But as for a trade remember I said that he would have to be assured 100% healthy and ready to play as a starter in 2020 for Pace to even think about a possible trade. Pace would not be willing to take any risk at all on Smith if that wasn't the case and our own docs agreed. If you trade for a guy whom you hope can immediately solve your QB problem you are gonna assume the balance of his deal which them might be restructured more advantageously if that made sense. Both Foles and Smith are out of guaranteed $$$ after 2020 so there is an opportunity to be creative cap wise by adding some guarantees in a restructure if it's warranted. It's a potential option. But this is a route Pace may have to follow if he wants a vet QB whose experienced enough in Nagy's offense to come in and run it day one. As for Mitch we can utilize his 5th year option exercising it in 2020 as a way of keeping our options open but it would not come into play until 2021 and even then it can be terminated before the start of the new league year in March. It costs us nothing to use it so why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 minute ago, soulman said: A trade if any wouldn't take place until next spring and even if Wash. released him they would still end up paying out on his guaranteed money less any offset money provided that clause is even in the contract. So I would say it's probably 50/50 at best they release him. But as for a trade remember I said that he would have to be assured 100% healthy and ready to play as a starter in 2020 for Pace to even think about a possible trade. Pace would not be willing to take any risk at all on Smith if that wasn't the case and our own docs agreed. If you trade for a guy whom you hope can immediately solve your QB problem you are gonna assume the balance of his deal which them might be restructured more advantageously if that made sense. Both Foles and Smith are out of guaranteed $$$ after 2020 so there is an opportunity to be creative cap wise by adding some guarantees in a restructure if it's warranted. It's a potential option. But this is a route Pace may have to follow if he wants a vet QB whose experienced enough in Nagy's offense to come in and run it day one. As for Mitch we can utilize his 5th year option exercising it in 2020 as a way of keeping our options open but it would not come into play until 2021 and even then it can be terminated before the start of the new league year in March. It costs us nothing to use it so why not? Well they will have up to the beginning of next May to make their decision on that option year. It will depend on a few factors of course. #1: How he finishes off 2019 #2: Which QB's will be made available in FA/trade next off season #3: What happens in the draft with QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, WindyCity said: If they exercise Mitch's option they should all be fired. That would be the stupidest thing I have ever seen done. 24 million dollar backup. Do you fully understand how that option works? Maybe we should use two different words (grant and exercise) to separate the two parts of what happens there. Pace can "exercise" the option just to preserve the Bears rights for a 5th season under the CBA terms for rookie playing under a 5th year option. It costs us nothing to do that but it will have to be done by next May I believe. Then we do nothing more with it until we evaluate whether or not Mitch has progressed far enough to have earned it at which time we can "grant" it or terminate it before the beginning of the 2021 league year in March. I reality you wouldn't even pay him the 5th year option salary. You'd extend him under a new contract and space out his cap hits to your advantage. Or he's willing to stay on as a #2 and continue to try to earn #1 status but for a far lesser amount of money. No one is suggesting we'd pay him $24 mil as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, soulman said: Do you fully understand how that option works? Maybe we should use two different words (grant and exercise) to separate the two parts of what happens there. Pace can "exercise" the option just to preserve the Bears rights for a 5th season under the CBA terms for rookie playing under a 5th year option. It costs us nothing to do that but it will have to be done by next May I believe. Then we do nothing more with it until we evaluate whether or not Mitch has progressed far enough to have earned it at which time we can "grant" it or terminate it before the beginning of the 2021 league year in March. I reality you wouldn't even pay him the 5th year option salary. You'd extend him under a new contract and space out his cap hits to your advantage. Or he's willing to stay on as a #2 and continue to try to earn #1 status but for a far lesser amount of money. No one is suggesting we'd pay him $24 mil as a backup. I understand fully how the option works. All it takes is one hit for that 24 million dollars to fully guarantee. Even if he is a backup the second he plays a snap in relief you are exposing yourself to it being guaranteed. 1 hit, 1 missed step in practice, 1 falling off the training table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Well they will have up to the beginning of next May to make their decision on that option year. It will depend on a few factors of course. #1: How he finishes off 2019 #2: Which QB's will be made available in FA/trade next off season #3: What happens in the draft with QB Correct so at the moment it's not anything that's on the front burner and any of our previous debates here about extending Mitch now have flown right out the window. I was never onboard with that idea anyway. I'm looking at two things here. One is Pace not wanting to be premature in giving up on Mitch. Personally I believed he had the higher ceiling out of him, Mahomes and Watson but that it would take a little longer to reach it. That part is proving accurate and in no way did I ever imagine his rookie year would turn into the train wreck it did as far as him getting his feet wet as an apprentice to Glennon. But the second is the realization that Mitch isn't "the guy" and may not ever be and I have to come up with another fix for 2020 and not waste another year of this window I've forced open. So I 100% need as much of a sure thing at QB as I can possibly get with no more taking risks on guys like Mike Glennon or anyone else who doesn't have strong playoff credentials. That's pretty much it as far as where I'm coming from. Drafting another QB in 2020 won't be very likely help me in 2020 and I can't risk another losing year unless Mitch is blessed by some kind of miracle over the next 9 games and becomes a younger Aaron Rodgers. So I'm gonna hedge my bets one way or another. And yes he could go another route but will that route lead him to a QB with previous playoff credentials and if not are we any better off? In some ways Pace has painted himself into a corner but he's already proven to be pretty resourceful and at least recently more bold so I would not put trading for any QB he felt could pull off what he needed out of the question. I may not agree with everything he does but at least we no longer have a GM content to sit tight and do nothing. That's a positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I understand fully how the option works. All it takes is one hit for that 24 million dollars to fully guarantee. Even if he is a backup the second he plays a snap in relief you are exposing yourself to it being guaranteed. 1 hit, 1 missed step in practice, 1 falling off the training table. Jeezus Christ Windy!! Didn't I just say we aren't about to grant that option only exercise it? It can't fully guarantee against injury until 2021 because he would not be playing under it 'til then. It doesn't protect him or grant any guarantees in 2020 when he will still be under his rookie deal. Only that portion of that contract is guaranteed.which is roughly $4.4 mil and change. The team can utilize (there's another word for it) that option in 2020 to preserve their right to a 5th season but it does not take effect until the beginning of the 2021 league year and it can also be terminated prior to the beginning of the new league year which it almost surely would be. IF (and a big one) Pace decided to extend Mitch it would be under some kind of deal other than his option salary. Those deals are cap killers and should be avoided. We know this. I'm not about to predict what might happen in 2020 or 2021 but I do know we aren't under any risk if we do opt to exercise Mitch's 5th year option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, soulman said: Jeezus Christ Windy!! Didn't I just say we aren't about to grant that option only exercise it? It can't fully guarantee against injury until 2021 because he would not be playing under it 'til then. It doesn't protect him or grant any guarantees in 2020 when he will still be under his rookie deal. Only that portion of that contract is guaranteed.which is roughly $4.4 mil and change. The team can utilize (there's another word for it) that option in 2020 to preserve their right to a 5th season but it does not take effect until the beginning of the 2021 league year and it can also be terminated prior to the beginning of the new league year which it almost surely would be. IF (and a big one) Pace decided to extend Mitch it would be under some kind of deal other than his option salary. Those deals are cap killers and should be avoided. We know this. I'm not about to predict what might happen in 2020 or 2021 but I do know we aren't under any risk if we do opt to exercise Mitch's 5th year option. If he is seriously injured in 2020 the 5th year option guarantees. The minute it is exercised it is guaranteed for injury that is the risk for the team and the benefit for the player. In 2021 it becomes guaranteed for everything. Jeezus. Edited November 1, 2019 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Teams must exercise this option in the time after the conclusion of the player's third regular season and prior to May 3 of the following League Year. When exercised, the option is guaranteed for injury only. If the player remains on the roster at the start of the League Year of his option season, it becomes fully guaranteed (skill, cap and injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, WindyCity said: If he is seriously injured in 2020 the 5th year option guarantees. The minute it is exercised it is guaranteed for injury that is the risk for the team and the benefit for the player. In 2021 it becomes guaranteed for everything. Jeezus. I don't believe that's correct but I'll recheck it. If I'm wrong I'll eat crow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, soulman said: I don't believe that's correct but I'll recheck it. If I'm wrong I'll eat crow. It is right off their website. The minute you exercise the option it is guaranteed for injury. If Floyd blew his knee this week he would have to pass a physical before the new league your to rescind it. Any serious injury or something that requires surgery would instantly guarantee the 24 million. Not worth the risk for Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 10:39 AM, WindyCity said: I do not actually think Pace is an idiot. I think that he cannot evaluate QB talent at all. Please explain what it is about Trubisky's college tape, combine results, and personal interviews that made him such a clear sure-fire bust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 12:40 PM, big_palooka said: What's a practical plan for fixing it given the lack of draft picks and cap space? Their problem with picks is now over, though. Being strapped for cap space was something projected by them giving Trubisky a franchise sized QB contract, which they may now not do. Perspective is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Please explain what it is about Trubisky's college tape, combine results, and personal interviews that made him such a clear sure-fire bust. 14 college starts would be the first place to start. But Pace is paid by results not process. Should Angelo still be working here? What in Carimi’s scouting report made it clear he would suck? What in Bensons? The NFL is about results. That is how everyone is judged. All 1st round busts have good tape and a reason they go high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Their problem with picks is now over, though. Being strapped for cap space was something projected by them giving Trubisky a franchise sized QB contract, which they may now not do. Perspective is good. It isn’t over. That is cheap depth that the Bears do not currently have. Instead of having a 3rd round TE they are paying Burton 8 million or instead of a 3rd round NB we are paying Skrine 6 million. There are cap issues without paying Mitch. The might be worse not paying him because now they may pay another QB and Mitch isn’t free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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