Week 9 GDT: Browns @ Broncos

[MWil23]

@Counselor I'm just here to say hi. 

[Scoundrel]

14 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

@Counselor I'm just here to say hi. 

You are always welcome here 

[MWil23]

So, the Browns forum is on the verge of an all out war about coaching staff, Baker Mayfield, etc. I haven't seen it this potentially volatile since the '07/'08 Anderson vs. Quinn debate coming off of 10-6 and missing the playoffs.

How are you guys holding up?

[Broncofan]

59 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

So, the Browns forum is on the verge of an all out war about coaching staff, Baker Mayfield, etc. I haven't seen it this potentially volatile since the '07/'08 Anderson vs. Quinn debate coming off of 10-6 and missing the playoffs.

How are you guys holding up?

Baker and his level of play right now would still be much better than anything we've had since PFM left.   Yeah...that bad.

And FTR, I'm still on record as thinking Darnold was the best guy from that class, and stand by that, even with the MNF "I see dead people" debacle - dude's actually younger than the guys drafted in 2019.  Crazy.   And I had my doubts on Baker last year, which this year did highlight were legit (but to be clear, Baker's peak more than justifies the valleys - a Q I had pre-draft, but for which @Counselor banged the drum as a total pro-Baker flag-planter).

Anways, back to Baker in CLE - I'd still say Baker should be ok, as long as he doesn't lose it altogether - he just isn't the flawless prospect some ppl projected from last year, as part of the 2018 rookie year also happened with him playing behind a fully intact and functional OL, and vs. a last-place schedule.  He's never faced pressure like the leaky CLE OL has allowed at OKL minus the BCS game <and why his 2H vs. Georgia did hint there was an adjustment phase that was going to happen>, and he's got to stop thinking he's got the athletic chops to make magic happen.  He's no A-Rod/Watson/Mahomes like talent.    He's a guy who lives off making quick reads, and using his accuracy/placement/anticipation skills to peak success.    He's trying to wait that extra sec for the big play to get open - and it's resulting in sacks and TO's.   And now he's clearly dealing with adversity off the field - something he's never been great with.   So yeah, tough times.

All of that said, we'd likely be 100x better off with Baker on our team as our QB.  Don't get me wrong.  For all of his flaws, he's still a guy CLE should be fine long-term with, as long as they fix the OL and they keep him from going off the rails between Sundays.  We know what he can do when the OL is working, and he's not distracted.   If we don't get pressure early and often vs. him, I suspect he & Chubb & OBJ will remind us why CLE was such a darling pick in the preseason (but if there's a weakness to hit, it's going after that OL and getting to Baker, for sure).

Edited October 31, 2019 by Broncofan

[Scoundrel]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Baker and his level of play right now would still be much better than anything we've had since PFM left.   Yeah...that bad.

And FTR, I'm still on record as thinking Darnold was the best guy from that class, and stand by that, even with the MNF "I see dead people" debacle - dude's actually younger than the guys drafted last year.  Crazy.   And I had my doubts on Baker last year, which this year did highlight were legit (but to be clear, Baker's peak more than justifies the valleys - a Q I had pre-draft, but for which @Counselor banged the drum as a total pro-Baker flag-planter).

Anways, back to Baker in CLE - I'd still say Baker should be ok, as long as he doesn't lose it altogether - he just isn't the flawless prospect some ppl projected from last year, as part of the 2018 rookie year also happened with him playing behind a fully intact and functional OL, and vs. a last-place schedule.  He's never faced pressure like the leaky CLE OL has allowed at OKL minus the BCS game <and why his 2H vs. Georgia did hint there was an adjustment phase that was going to happen>, and he's got to stop thinking he's got the athletic chops to make magic happen.  He's no A-Rod/Watson/Mahomes like talent.    He's a guy who lives off making quick reads, and using his accuracy/placement/anticipation skills to peak success.    He's trying to wait that extra sec for the big play to get open - and it's resulting in sacks and TO's.   And now he's clearly dealing with adversity off the field - something he's never been great with.   So yeah, tough times.

All of that said, we'd likely be 100x better off with Baker on our team as our QB.  Don't get me wrong.  For all of his flaws, he's still a guy CLE should be fine long-term with, as long as they fix the OL and they keep him from going off the rails between Sundays.  We know what he can do when the OL is working, and he's not distracted.   If we don't get pressure early and often vs. him, I suspect he & Chubb & OBJ will remind us why CLE was such a darling pick in the preseason (but if there's a weakness to hit, it's going after that OL and getting to Baker, for sure).

Baker turns it around starting with us and plays much better football the rest of the season. That’s the flag I’m planting. 

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Baker turns it around starting with us and plays much better football the rest of the season. That’s the flag I’m planting. 

I do see Baker bringing his A game as well lol good call. 

As for the rest of the season when Hunt comes back Baker will Look great as a game manager. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by thebestever6

[Scoundrel]

Just now, thebestever6 said:

I do see Baker bringing his A game as well lol good call. 

Coming out game? 

[thebestever6]

8 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Coming out game? 

No more like once Kareem the dream Hunt comes back that browns offense is gonna look a whole lot better. Chubb and Hunt oh myyyyyy!

Once the defense gets sucked in Baker will shine. That's why I don't think your flag plant is that bold.

Edited October 31, 2019 by thebestever6

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Baker turns it around starting with us and plays much better football the rest of the season. That’s the flag I’m planting. 

CLE's schedule is so soft now, I could see them go 7-2 and sneak into the WC.   That would be awesome since I did get a SB prop for them that I couldn't pass up - can't get there without getting into the playoffs lol (that OL though will be their downfall...WAS FO can really go take a long walk off a short pier - CLE offered them a 1st at 2-2 for WAS for Trent Williams, and they refused - until the trade deadline on Tuesday, when CLE was 2-5.   I don't blame the CLE FO for saying too bad - WAS FO is likely not even coming close to sniffing next offseason for a 32 year-old guy who hasn't played in a year, and refuses to play for WAS ever again.  SMH).

Baker should be fine - the only issue that he really needs to control is getting the ball out sooner when nothing's there.  He's definitely trying for the hero play, and it's getting him sacked or worse.   That D is so good with Greedy Williams and Denzel Ward back, he doesn't have to try to be the hero, at least not until the 4Q lol.

[Scoundrel]

33 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

No more like once Kareem the dream Hunt comes back that browns offense is gonna look a whole lot better. Chubb and Hunt oh myyyyyy!

Once the defense gets sucked in Baker will shine. That's why I don't think your flag plant is that bold.

Wasn’t meant to be bold. 

[Scoundrel]

25 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

CLE's schedule is so soft now, I could see them go 7-2 and sneak into the WC.   That would be awesome since I did get a SB prop for them that I couldn't pass up - can't get there without getting into the playoffs lol (that OL though will be their downfall...WAS FO can really go take a long walk off a short pier - CLE offered them a 1st at 2-2 for WAS for Trent Williams, and they refused - until the trade deadline on Tuesday, when CLE was 2-5.   I don't blame the CLE FO for saying too bad - WAS FO is likely not even coming close to sniffing next offseason for a 32 year-old guy who hasn't played in a year, and refuses to play for WAS ever again.  SMH).

Baker should be fine - the only issue that he really needs to control is getting the ball out sooner when nothing's there.  He's definitely trying for the hero play, and it's getting him sacked or worse.   That D is so good with Greedy Williams and Denzel Ward back, he doesn't have to try to be the hero, at least not until the 4Q lol.

Yeah that LT situation sucks too

[Broncofan]

Just now, Counselor said:

Wasn’t meant to be bold. 

Well not bold like Baker at OSU anyways....

 

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Yeah that LT situation sucks too

If WAS gets a 1st for Trent Williams next offseason I'll eat my words here.  But IMO they overplayed a gift situation.  This is the best T draft class to come out in years, with huge top-end talent and at least 3 guys who have the LT starter skill set.   WAS was gifted a 1st for Williams, and now they are going to get at best a 2nd for him next offseason. That's a massive drop in return.   And all because of Snyder's spite for a player who has legitimate issues with the medical staff's handling of his situation (where have we heard that before with WAS, NYJ, the Mets).   

That is the saddest org around.  I truly feel for their fanbase.   As bad as our 2017-9 problems are, at some point we know the org won't stand for continued mediocrity.   You can't say that about WAS. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Broncofan

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

20 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

How about a bit of perspective - 

 

Lets see -

OL - Franklin, Kuper, Walton, Beadles, Clady

WR - Thomas, Royal, Decker

TE - Julius Thomas

Let's look at the defence 

Dumervil, Miller, DJ, Woodyard, CHJ, Dawkins, Champ.

And we actually had a punter in Colquitt. 

Are you seriously telling me that Fangio and his staff have better offensive players and that he couldn't have done anything with those players on defence?  On top of that - Mike McCoy was OC - have you forgotten that one ?

Again -

 

Not sure if serious? 

OL: Mediocre at best. Clady had a good year, Franklin was a rookie and sub-par, Beadles, Walton and Kuber were all average to below average players.

WR: Thomas was still young and at this point Sutton is a better player, Sanders was a MUCH better receiver than Royal ever was, but I'll give you Decker.

TE: Julius Thomas was a rookie and barley saw the field.

Our defense this year is superior to our Defense in 2011. Better up front, AJ Johnson has played better than Woodyard, Simmons is playing at higher level than B Dawk, not to mention we still have CHJ playing at a high-level, Kareem Jackson, etc. 

So I'm not really sure what "perspective" you're offering. Mike McCoy has been fired as a coach more times than I can remember, so not sure how that enhances your argument. My point is that with competent coaching, that staff was able to take a team with similar (less IMO) talent and turn them into a playoff team.

I don't get why people think criticizing our coaching staff is unwarranted? Fangio has displayed in all three games that we've lost on the final possession that he is in over his head and I will continue to believe that until someone offers compelling evidence otherwise.

[AnAngryAmerican]

On 10/30/2019 at 10:08 AM, MakeDenverGreatAgain said:

Just think everyone, we're good coaching away from being in playoff contention. Losing 3 games in the last 30 seconds when you have a lead comes down to coaching. You're team not being prepared to play KC comes down to coaching. For all of the heat that Elway gets, and yes he hired the coach, Fangio and his staff are a REAL problem. 

Just look at what John Fox did with Tebow. He had the team ready to play and succeed. If Fangio coached that team, we would've been 1 and 15. 

I agree. John Fox and his staff didn’t get enough credit for what they did when they did it. Was Fox an elite HC? No. But he was a pretty darn good one and was exactly what we needed at the time. 

Fangio (and Scangarello, Munchak, Donatell, et. at.) is a problem with this team. I know people want to give them all a pass, and I get it to a certain extent, but they need to do a lot better.