call me crazy but....

[clarkfn2284]

36 minutes ago, Pandomonium said:

because I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. 
but not stupid enough of a fanboy to think everything is just wonderful 

 

I don't think anyone here thinks everything is wonderful. If you think that then the joke is on you I guess. Some people are just watching the season play out without feeling the need to nit pick. If you want to look hard enough at any team you will find their warts. I am far more concerned about Robbie Gould than I am Jimmy and I am barely concerned about Gould at this point.

My question is what happens if the "good teams" come and go and they don't stop the run? What happens if they do, but the Niners still win and Jimmy is still just average in your eyes? I mean at some point he has to have the equity allotted to others. Does he have to win a SB? What if he does in his current state of affairs?

It's complete subjective criticism for nothing. Until we see what happens in these situations why should we doubt the ability when we do not have concrete evidence? It's just really glass half empty, which is fine I guess. I just don't know why the narrative isn't the other way?

[Forge]

1 hour ago, Pandomonium said:

because I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. 
but not stupid enough of a fanboy to think everything is just wonderful 

 

Why are our issues bigger than the other contenders' issues? Or are you thinking that the other contenders are all flawless (they aren't)? 

[N4L]

3 hours ago, Pandomonium said:

because I am CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. 
but not stupid enough of a fanboy to think everything is just wonderful 

 

You are not optimistic at all. I think you need to look up the definition of optimistic. 

Cautiously optimistic is 'I hope we can do well but I wont say we are the favorites'

You said "its not our year, we cant beat the good teams'

That is extremely pessimistic for a team that is 7-0 and has an average margin of victory of 18 points

 

So someone who thinks everything is wonderful is a stupid fan boy? BECAUSE THE NINERS ARE 7-0 HOW IS EVERYTHING NOT WONDERFUL 

Edited October 30, 2019 by N4L

[Ataal]

It's a great time to be a Niners fan when we're doing so well that we're debating about Schrödinger's cat flaws.

We're 7-0 for the first time in forever.  Probably heading for a similar record to our 2011/2012 seasons and would have to mess up really bad at this point to miss the playoffs.

As for the turnovers, we're middle of the pack, pretty much, in that area.  But, tied for 6th in turnover differential and 4th in total takeaways.  If we weren't generating turnovers on a consistent basis, I'd be more concerned.

I'd love to see improvement in all areas, but I just can't see any absolutely glaring issues that need to be fixed ASAP.

I get it.  I don't want to get my hopes up too high, either, but I can't find any logical reason to keep myself grounded at this point.  If you would have asked me at week 3 or 4, I would have been much more skeptical.  We are absolutely dominating teams that the Seahawks and other good teams have struggled against.  Things are looking pretty good so far.  Very happy Niners fan here. 

 

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, clarkfn2284 said:

The comparison is not to those players. It is to the offense and the style of play. They win regularly without stretching the field and have done so for a very long time. Here is the thing, we are basically penalizing Jimmy for something he hasn't even had the opportunity to attempt. We have not seen him in "the moment". We only have what we have. That being the case, is it really fair to penalize him for not having a "moment" where he made a huge game winning throw in a crucial game at a crucial point? It's grasping at straws and really completely subjective because he has won games for the team. He was primarily responsible for the Jaguar win and the Steeler win. Criticize it once it happens.

What do you do if that three game stretch comes and goes and he still doesn't have to "win the game" for the team? Then what? Here is what we do know. He is 15-2 as a starter, he has shown more than a capable ability to throw into tight windows and down field. We also know that there are a few decisions in every game that are suspect. He isn't the first QB to do it and wont be the last. In fact, the two mentioned above have their fair share of bad decisions in games as well. I really don't think we can assume at this point that he will shrink in the moment.

We are nit picking at something that may not even really be an issue. Why must we create a problem?

Fair enough...

But we have seen him in those moments. The Vikes and Chiefs games last year (two playoff teams) he definitely left plays on the field that could have impacted those outcomes differently. I know it was last year and this is a different team but that doesn't erase the fact. He didn't look good.

I gave Jimmy ALL the credit when he went on his 5 game win streak to end 2017. No one was higher on his potential than me. But his play has dipped since then when I watch the film. I haven't seen that next step in maturation to make me think 'yea, Jimmy got this'. Its not really a 'wins and losses' kind of metric I'm basing it on. Its just the quality of play, at the position. The throws he isn't making or the route he isn't seeing because he's eyes are in the wrong place. Or his footwork STILL affecting his accuracy. I'm saying those things will matter and greatly affect the outcome of big games if those aren't addressed and rectified, sooner rather than later. Those are the kind of things I want to see improvement on before I go yelling "We Da Best". Because I dont think we are until those areas are improved upon. We're still really good of course..

But there's no guarantee that we will see that improvement happen this year because we happen to be 7-0 and our defense is playing outer-worldly...that's all I'm saying. I'm ok with the thought that it maybe next year where it starts to happen for him...and the team. Because sometimes that's how it works out. I'm not in the 'its this year or bust because our defense is playing lights out and we will lose certain free-agents next year' camp. I think the team could be even better and deeper next year so its not imperative that it happens this year. Every team has flaws....absolutely. But when your biggest flaw happens to be your QB and whether or not he can make enough throws so that your passing game isn't a liability, you should have legitimate worries about how you match up in post-season play. 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by 757-NINER

[N4L]

24 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

This part of the post I have a serious problem with. I agree that his response to you was a little vitriolic, but this was too far. 

my apologies @Pandomonium 

and @y2 too

 

I edited that out but you memorialized it lol 

Edited October 30, 2019 by N4L

[y2lamanaki]

59 minutes ago, N4L said:

my apologies @Pandomonium 

and @y2 too

 

I edited that out but you memorialized it lol 

All good!

[y2lamanaki]

1 hour ago, 757-NINER said:

But we have seen him in those moments. The Vikes and Chiefs games last year (two playoff teams) he definitely left plays on the field that could have impacted those outcomes differently. I know it was last year and this is a different team but that doesn't erase the fact. He didn't look good.

But we have seen him (do well) in those moments. The Bears and Titans in 2017 (two playoff teams) he definitely left no plays on the field and the plays he made directly impacted those outcomes. I know it was 2017 and this is a different team but that doesn't erase the fact. He looked really good. 

(I know the Bears didn't make the playoffs in 2017, but neither did the Vikings last year so I needed to keep it that way for the analogy to work)

[rudyZ]

I think Jimmy hasn't played great because he hasn't been needed to. When he was needed, he's made plays. Converting 3rd downs, abusing opposing defenses off the playactions. He's played his roles, and hasn't needed to do too much. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

 

[N4L]

9 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

Fair enough...

But we have seen him in those moments. The Vikes and Chiefs games last year (two playoff teams) he definitely left plays on the field that could have impacted those outcomes differently. I know it was last year and this is a different team but that doesn't erase the fact. He didn't look good.

I gave Jimmy ALL the credit when he went on his 5 game win streak to end 2017. No one was higher on his potential than me. But his play has dipped since then when I watch the film. I haven't seen that next step in maturation to make me think 'yea, Jimmy got this'. Its not really a 'wins and losses' kind of metric I'm basing it on. Its just the quality of play, at the position. The throws he isn't making or the route he isn't seeing because he's eyes are in the wrong place. Or his footwork STILL affecting his accuracy. I'm saying those things will matter and greatly affect the outcome of big games if those aren't addressed and rectified, sooner rather than later. Those are the kind of things I want to see improvement on before I go yelling "We Da Best". Because I dont think we are until those areas are improved upon. We're still really good of course..

But there's no guarantee that we will see that improvement happen this year because we happen to be 7-0 and our defense is playing outer-worldly...that's all I'm saying. I'm ok with the thought that it maybe next year where it starts to happen for him...and the team. Because sometimes that's how it works out. I'm not in the 'its this year or bust because our defense is playing lights out and we will lose certain free-agents next year' camp. I think the team could be even better and deeper next year so its not imperative that it happens this year. Every team has flaws....absolutely. But when your biggest flaw happens to be your QB and whether or not he can make enough throws so that your passing game isn't a liability, you should have legitimate worries about how you match up in post-season play. 

 

Just a question, how many times are you rewatching games? I find that the 2nd time through I feel really good about Garoppolos performances, especially recently. 

Watched the Panthers game again tonight. Garoppolo played really well. Looked super sharp. Very much in command of the offense and the footwork has definitely improved since week 1. 

Give it time, now that we have 2 legitimate receiving weapons on our offense, the passing game is going to open up. Garoppolo has unmistakable signs of improvement week by week. I see no reason for that not to continue. (Especially against the Cardinals)

[Ftn49]

20 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I don't share in this concern. I think this is a psychological thing where it looks like there are a lack of big plays because of his yardage totals, but that's because we go up so quickly that we're no longer throwing the ball by the end of the 3rd quarter. 

Here's Garoppolo's pass attempts by quarter this season:

1st: 52 (we typically defer and kick first)

2nd: 64

3rd: 50 (we typically get the ball first this quarter)

4th: 23

 

The 49ers are dead last in 4th quarter pass plays (24 in total) and it's not even close. The Vikings are 31st with 43 and New England is 30th with 50. The 49ers are the only team in the league to run fewer than 100 second half pass plays. We've run 77 (Jimmy's attempts plus 4 sacks). The next closest team is the Raiders with 103.

It only looks like we are unable to move the ball in the air because we have yet to have a real need to do it. And there's some definite "let's not put Jimmy in harm's way" without both starting tackles in there as well. 

Jimmy is currently on pace for 432 pass attempts on the year. That's a very low number in today's NFL. That number jumps up to 530 if you prorate only the first half numbers. 

 

Have some faith, friends. Jimmy and the passing game will be there when it's needed.

Part of it is also Shanny protecting the defense... He obviously took that SB loss to the pats to heart.

[Ftn49]

18 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

And who is the Pats QB?? Oh yea...that guy with the last name Brady. The guy who has made a HOF career out making big throws at crucial moments in big games. Jimmy G is no Tom Brady. Nor is he Drew Brees. These guys are proven...been through the fire. Jimmy hasn't. I think its wishful thinking at this point to suggest he WILL perform like those QBs under similar circumstances. We just don't know at this point. And I'm not in the habit of assuming its going to all come together for him because everything else around him is positioned for him to. The Rams just bottled up our run game a couple of weeks ago. Granted our defense was suffocating their offense. But there could come a time where the defense and the run game dont perform up to their usual standards. Then its on the passing offense to step up and make plays.

People keeping bringing up the Pittsburgh game like it was some huge test he aced. That team is 3-5 and the defense is a shell of its former self. That one game didn't sway me. 

Now the three game stretch where we face Green Bay, NO and Baltimore will paint the picture more clearer for me personally. But at this moment, I think assuming Jimmy G will perform at the level of a Brady or Brees, on the biggest stage, and against top tier teams is just pure fandom. He hasn't had to yet so I'll wait to reserve judgement until he is asked to. 

For the first 5 years, maybe more of Brady's career he was labeled a game manager and not that great. I think people forget that sometimes. 

I do think those 3 games you listed will put clarity into a lot of peoples minds.

[oldman9er]

8 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Brian Baldinger

 

✔@BaldyNFL

Yeah, but there was wobble in that throw. Can't have that. Jimmy sucks. We are doomed and I'm not going to be a stupid fan boy and pretend otherwise!!!!!

[y2lamanaki]

42 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

Part of it is also Shanny protecting the defense... He obviously took that SB loss to the pats to heart.

This is an excellent point. It's Shanahan learning from a mistake. Now, when he has the lead - get out with the win.