When should Drew Lock start games this year?

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yeah I saw that and it was really awkward. I don't know why he basically trashed Elway for 3 straight mins calling him horrible at his job and that he doesn't trust him at all to fix anything. It almost sounded personal.

Especially considering they played together and he is also a alum of the franchise it seemed he was incredibly harsh on somebody he probably would call a friend.

Reality TV isn't all the reality anymore lol. He could of said to John in private hey I'm gonna bash you on TV bc that's what I get paid to do tongue in cheek.

It's like wrestling it's all scripted and is mindless entertainment. 

[1234567]

If we didn’t have the worst o-line in the nfl I’d say play him as soon as possible so we can see what we have there. The problem is that our line is SO bad that there is no way to get a fair evaluation of him. All you’re really doing is setting him up for failure/injury. 

[thebestever6]

9 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

If we didn’t have the worst o-line in the nfl I’d say play him as soon as possible so we can see what we have there. The problem is that our line is SO bad that there is no way to get a fair evaluation of him. All you’re really doing is setting him up for failure/injury. 

If James was healthy I believe he'd be the starter. 

[Broncofan]

15 hours ago, germ-x said:

Obviously that’s what most of these shows are and they’re getting paid, but is he all that wrong? Further, pretty ballsy for a former teammate to say who you won 2 SBs with.  He easily could’ve thrown support toward Elway, but he literally trashed him about as hard as anyone I’ve heard/read.

 

55 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yeah I saw that and it was really awkward. I don't know why he basically trashed Elway for 3 straight mins calling him horrible at his job and that he doesn't trust him at all to fix anything. It almost sounded personal.

Especially considering they played together and he is also a alum of the franchise it seemed he was incredibly harsh on somebody he probably would call a friend.

Let's also take a step back, and examine the entire context with Schlereth & DEN:

-Schlereth was an ESPN commentator from 2004-17, leaving DEN local radio/media (2000-4).  During that time, though - he commuted from DEN to Connecticut the entire time.  He's lived in DEN post-retirement since 2000.  So he's very much abreast of the events within the DEN org.

-Schlereth's been working full-time in DEN since 2017.  Not just radio, but play-by-play on Fox.    So he's getting a fantastic perspective on the game, and getting in-depth behind the scenes time with visiting teams and DEN.

-As we all know, he's a teammate of Elway during the big run (1995-2000), and never once before has he spoken up to criticize Elway in public as a GM like he did this week.   Waiting until now to call Elway out, it's hard to believe someone with a personal grudge would wait this long to make that call.   It's not like the Lynch failure, the VJ hire/fire or the Mike McCoy hire/fire wouldn't have given ample opportunity for Schlereth to start taking shots at Elway.

Again, he didn't call out Bolles' play as without hope until this year.  He gave Bolles the 2017-8 season and 2019 preseason to show progress.  And then he made his call that Bolles was a lost cause.  So far, that take has proven to be spot-on.    So when he waits this long to call out Elway, it's hard to believe he hasn't thought this out, or given Elway his due diligence and benefit of the doubt before weighing in like he did this past week.

This is not a guy who's a fly-by-night BR dude, Schlereth by all appearances & history is completely entrenched in the community and wants to stay here.    So his comments should not be dismissed as impulsive, or flavor-of-the-day comments.  He's got too much invested in staying in DEN to be anything but open / transparent in making stands that will be scrutinized for as long as he stays in DEN.  And unless he's put his house up for sale, everything says Schlereth is here for the long haul.

Nobody is perfect, and he could very well be proven wrong.  But to act like Schlereth would be capricious, or impulsive in making his call, is to paint him in a way that just does not jive with his background and history here.   There is no way he would call Elway out if he didn't really feel it in his bones. And frankly, as this would make him persona non grata at Dove Valley, he'd only do it if he knew Elway was truly on the hot seat - and deserved it.   He may not be correct, but there is literally zero reason to dismiss his take on Elway as anything but genuine on his part, right or wrong.  Schlereth's history and commitment to staying in DEN say otherwise. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

He may not be correct, but there is literally zero reason to dismiss his take on Elway as anything but genuine on his part, right or wrong.  Schlereth's history and commitment to staying in DEN say otherwise. 

When you're involved in media specifically FS1 which is week to week hot take garbage you tend to lean that way. When he was on ESPN I got a kick of him arguing against Tebow lol.

Mark is allowed to live week to week in his line of work because that's the money marker for him besides his commentary. Does it mean we should take it as Gospel? The truth lies somewhere in between. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by thebestever6

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Having said that, the actual personnel moves made during this time are all Elway.   Trading for Joe Flacco with a 4th instead of going the Bridgewater/Tannehill route.   Going Lock over a later choice (or an earlier one).   Deciding to restructure Von's 2016 money to get Clinton McDonald, Jared Veldheer & Tramaine Brock.  The 2017 draft in its entirety.   

And all of those decisions likely made because Ellis keeps ordering Elway to get to the post season NOW so he can keep the sponsors happy.

On top of that you are assuming that Bridgewater would have come to Denver last off-season. The real world isn't Madden where you can just dial up the signing of a player.

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

And all of those decisions likely made because Ellis keeps ordering Elway to get to the post season NOW so he can keep the sponsors happy.

On top of that you are assuming that Bridgewater would have come to Denver last off-season. The real world isn't Madden where you can just dial up the signing of a player.

Entirely fair to say we don't know what other result would have happened, but let's face it, the Flacco signing was seen as uninspired from the beginning by most, and proven to be ultimately correct. 

Elway trading for Flacco so early took away all the other options, that's my point.    And while neither one of those above scenarios would have necessarily happened, it's hard to argue that any other scenario would have been worse - simply because no one else cost nearly as much as Flacco did $ wise, or 4th round pick wise, and it's hard to see a worse result on O.    One can argue that Flacco was the best of a bad bunch - but I'd argue that if the difference is so negligible (and I did at the time), it's not even close to worth a 4th, or 18M.    Flacco was a pick destined to fail IMO - because even though he's been better than what we've had - it's not even close to good enough to be a difference-maker.   That was the knock all along.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Broncofan

[The Helicopter]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Just to be clear - you're saying 0 games, and Elway should draft QB no matter what if the right guy is there Rd1?  Or does it have to be a certain guy(s)?  I applaud taking the bold stance, but also want to be clear on what you just said lol.

Allen and Rypien are now auditioning for next year's backup. Depending on our draft position and how the board falls, we either take a QB in 2020 or not, and build the o-line/team for Lock's audition as starter next year.

[Broncofan]

1 minute ago, The Helicopter said:

Allen and Rypien are now auditioning for next year's backup. Depending on our draft position and how the board falls, we either take a QB in 2020 or not, and build the o-line/team for Lock's audition as starter next year.

So you aren't committed to going QB at all costs Rd1, but are willing to let Lock audition as the starter if the match isn't there.  Or go QB if you are sold on our option Rd1.  Gotcha.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Broncofan

[The Helicopter]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

So Brandon Allen plays well enough to hold off this fanbase because that's what it's going to take.

This season is already over. The fan base shouldn't boo the players. If one goes to the games, cheer and have fun. If one doesn't like the product then don't go to the games. That'll send the best message.

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

This season is already over. The fan base shouldn't boo the players. If one goes to the games, cheer and have fun. If one doesn't like the product then don't go to the games. That'll send the best message.

Empty seats sealed VJ & co's fate last year.   It was a foregone conclusion because it's literally the one thing Ellis cares about.   

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

This season is already over. The fan base shouldn't boo the players. If one goes to the games, cheer and have fun. If one doesn't like the product then don't go to the games. That'll send the best message.

If An uninspiring Brandon Allen is lining up behind center the cheers for Lock will make the Tebow cheers look mellow. 

You know how it works it's not booing it's more cheering we want Lock. Allen has to play at a Nick Mullens level and I just don't see it.

[The Helicopter]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

So you aren't committed to going QB at all costs Rd1, but are willing to let Lock audition as the starter if the match isn't there.  Or go QB if you are sold on our option Rd1.  Gotcha.

"I think quarterback is a position that is a valuable position. I can’t think of one time when a team that had such value at the quarterback position wasn’t able to recoup something for it. Too many quarterbacks is a lot better of a situation than not enough."

[The Helicopter]

Flacco expected to miss 4-6 weeks...maybe season:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27975219/source-joe-flacco-expected-miss-4-6-weeks-need-surgery-neck-injury

[AnAngryAmerican]

8 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

It is possible that Elway wanted Kyle S in Denver and that Ellis blocked it - just like he did with Mike - we don't know.

From Woody’s reporting last year in the CS Gazette (behind a paywall I can’t even get to) Elway was “blown away” with Kyle’s interview and even after initially leaning towards Vance, Kyle’s interview made him think twice.

At that time, with a tie between the two candidates, three factors tipped the scales in Vance’s favor:

One, Ellis didn’t want the Shanahans back in the  building after he had taken advantage of Mr. B’s declining mental state to get Mike fired after the 2008 season in which EVERY connected and respected person with whom I have spoken in the last 10 years called blatant power grab by Ellis. Mike was a power-hungry control freak, yes, but, as both Woody and Les Shapiro reported, Ellis thought replacing him with a HC of lesser stature would help Ellis consolidate power. So then Ellis hires Mac, who was young, and thus Ellis thought he would be easier to control. Then Mac proved to be a bull in a china shop, just totally uncontrollable, putting egg on Ellis’s face within Dove Valley and forcing him to hire Elway and give at least public control of football matters to him. 

Two, Matt “pour me another drink” Russell’s relationship with Vance going back to their time at CU. For some reason, despite arriving here as a lackey and yes-man for Mac, Elway not only retained Russell but promoted him. This, a widely-respected Broncos beat reporter tells me, is likely also a CYA move from Ellis as Ellis is in circle the wagons mode and doesn’t want any bad blood with anyone who has dirt on his stewardship of the team should the Bill Bowlen lawsuit ever get to a trial. Elway, also for some reason, does have trust and faith in Russell’s opinion. 

Three, Elways initial, gut-feeling, on VJ. They liked him when they interviewed him to be Kubiak’s DC before Cincy blocked it. He had not only Russell’s endorsement but Kubiak’s as well. Only by divine intervention did it not work out and we went with Wade, without whom we don’t win SB50.