Is Baker the Answer? (Poll)

[DawgX]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I’m disturbed by the turnovers.

 

I’m disturbed that he needs an elite cast around him to be successful.

I mean, he didn't last year and was still pretty successful.

[buno67]

Love fields but he hasn’t shown me anything at the moment that makes me want him as the QB of the Browns 

[Mind Character]

We'll know for sure somewhere around game 40 (2.5 seasons of starts) give or take a little.

Until such a time, no one can say definitively until an arc of consistent play is developed.

What I do think is that to this point Baker does not appear to be a "tractor" (Pull's everyone with him raising their level of play or transcending what's around him) player but instead more of a "trailer" player (A good one at that though; A player that depends. Now, of course, there are varying degrees of Tractor vs Trailer player and even at his worst Baker will still have Tractor flashes at least.

What I wonder is if Baker loves it enough to get to the next level through elite of the elite commitment, study, and work. Will he obsess over winning like the Drew Brees;, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson as much as he obsesses over the process it takes to prepare his body, mind, and play-ability to be an elite winner? You can't just love the winning outcome or what comes with it.

That's the only path for an undersized, not all that overly athletic, really good but not elite arm talent QB can take to truly become elite. Baker won't be elite without elite work habits, elite study, etc..

Walking that road is painful and a grind.

I don't have the confidence at this point that he'll do those things. So, based off of that belief, I think he'll just be a decent QB with good flash years here or there.

I desperately hope I'm wrong.

[Mind Character]

Just now, buno67 said:

Love fields but he hasn’t shown me anything at the moment that makes me want him as the QB of the Browns 

That.

[bruceb]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

 

I’m disturbed that he needs an elite cast around him to be successful.

Another knock was that he needed to play in a scheme.

At this point it is fair to consider both as possible chinks in his armor.

[bruceb]

2 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

We'll know for sure somewhere around game 40 (2.5 seasons of starts) give or take a little.

Until such a time, no one can say definitively until an arc of consistent play is developed.

What I do think is that to this point Baker does not appear to be a "tractor" (Pull's everyone with him raising their level of play or transcending what's around him) player but instead more of a "trailer" player (A good one at that though; A player that depends. Now, of course, there are varying degrees of Tractor vs Trailer player and even at his worst Baker will still have Tractor flashes at least.

What I wonder is if Baker loves it enough to get to the next level through elite of the elite commitment, study, and work. Will he obsess over winning like the Drew Brees;, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson as much as he obsesses over the process it takes to prepare his body, mind, and play-ability to be an elite winner? You can't just love the winning outcome or what comes with it.

That's the only path for an undersized, not all that overly athletic, really good but not elite arm talent QB can take to truly become elite. Baker won't be elite without elite work habits, elite study, etc..

Walking that road is painful and a grind.

I don't have the confidence at this point that he'll do those things. So, based off of that belief, I think he'll just be a decent QB with good flash years here or there.

I desperately hope I'm wrong.

That was my selection.

Well put.

[DawgX]

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

We'll know for sure somewhere around game 40 (2.5 seasons of starts) give or take a little.

Until such a time, no one can say definitively until an arc of consistent play is developed.

What I do think is that to this point Baker does not appear to be a "tractor" (Pull's everyone with him raising their level of play or transcending what's around him) player but instead more of a "trailer" player (A good one at that though; A player that depends. Now, of course, there are varying degrees of Tractor vs Trailer player and even at his worst Baker will still have Tractor flashes at least.

What I wonder is if Baker loves it enough to get to the next level through elite of the elite commitment, study, and work. Will he obsess over winning like the Drew Brees;, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson as much as he obsesses over the process it takes to prepare his body, mind, and play-ability to be an elite winner? You can't just love the winning outcome or what comes with it.

That's the only path for an undersized, not all that overly athletic, really good but not elite arm talent QB can take to truly become elite. Baker won't be elite without elite work habits, elite study, etc..

Walking that road is painful and a grind.

I don't have the confidence at this point that he'll do those things. So, based off of that belief, I think he'll just be a decent QB with good flash years here or there.

I desperately hope I'm wrong.

Any particular reason you feel this way or is that just a hunch? I have no idea either way, but he doesn't strike me as the lazy type. His teammates and coaches seem to love him and he simply doesn't come off as being a lazy and complacent person from my point of view. Dude has had about 20 starts under his belt, so just because he's struggling a bit doesn't mean he's not hungry or have the work ethic to be successful long-term.

[buno67]

13 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I’m disturbed by the turnovers.

 

I’m disturbed that he needs an elite cast around him to be successful.

Dude you look at all the great QBs and they have some great cast around. Brady might have not had amazing offense talent around but the dude always had elite defenses around him. 

 

[pnies20]

5 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Love fields but he hasn’t shown me anything at the moment that makes me want him as the QB of the Browns 

I think we should lure Troy Smith out of retirement

[buno67]

4 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Another knock was that he needed to play in a scheme.

At this point it is fair to consider both as possible chinks in his armor.

Every QB needs to play in scheme that fits in a scheme. Especially when it comes to young QBs. Go look at all the top QBs, when they were young QBs like Wilson Brady Big Ben they played in heavy run schemes with stellar defenses to help support them and make the game easier for them. 
 

Gotta have a scheme that actually allows the QB to be successful 

[Kiwibrown]

Baker is a guy that will always be dependent on the oline rather than the wrs. Give him an oline i think he wilm be brees like, if he doesnt have an oline he wont be big ben or russ 

[bruceb]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Gotta have a scheme that actually allows the QB to be successful 

Agree, and their has been a major disconnect between game-planning/play calls and what makes Mayfield best.

Oh, and the turnovers, penalties and things like not being able to line up right.

[buno67]

19 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Baker is a guy that will always be dependent on the oline rather than the wrs. Give him an oline i think he wilm be brees like, if he doesnt have an oline he wont be big ben or russ 

I think it’s scheme first and foremost. We weren’t successful last year because of Zeitler. We had success cause of scheme. That made things easier for the OL and for the skill players. 
 

We don’t have a scheme or an identity. Which is a disaster. I understood it lacking the first quarter of the year but it’s it’s the 2nd half and we still don’t have it. We should be a run first defensive team at the moment. Nothing whatsoever slowing the game down and making it easier for Baker. 

[NateDawg]

Year 3 is the biggest and most telling year for me. Will he put the necessary dedication towards the off-season and making the steps that he needs to be a true franchise quarterback? Becoming that has as much to do with dedication and less to do with talent. He has the ability to succeed, without question. There are clear deficiencies in his game that can be corrected but do you need addressed for him to take the needed steps. I will be able to get a better vote in a year from now, but I think he has a good chance still of being our long-term quarterback.

[Mind Character]

13 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Any particular reason you feel this way or is that just a hunch? I have no idea either way, but he doesn't strike me as the lazy type. His teammates and coaches seem to love him and he simply doesn't come off as being a lazy and complacent person from my point of view. Dude has had about 20 starts under his belt, so just because he's struggling a bit doesn't mean he's not hungry or have the work ethic to be successful long-term.

There's some nuance in what I stated that may bear some emphasizing: I'm making a distinction between elite work habits versus okay-to-good (where I believe Baker likely is) one's and not elite work habits versus lazy one's.

There's a difference between being lazy and just not being elite. I've never once said that baker is lazy. The battle against complacency is a continual battle for all human beings on the journey of elite pursuits. 

I did say this though:  

"What I wonder is if Baker loves it enough to get to the next level through elite of the elite commitment, study, and work. Will he obsess over winning like the Drew Brees;, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson as much as he obsesses over the process it takes to prepare his body, mind, and play-ability to be an elite winner? You can't just love the winning outcome or what comes with it.Baker won't be elite without elite work habits, elite study, etc.."

Now, the basis of my core belief on why Baker isn't elite at such things  stems from what I learned via family and friends of family in the scouting business during the lead-up to that 2018 NFL Draft. While Baker was known to be ultra-competitive and have the type of fire and magnetic personality to uplift a program and organization,  despite popular sentiments many scouts had questions about Baker's commitment to next level film study and QB bio-mechanic, eye-training routines that he would likely need to get o the next level in the league all while having an understanding of the hard-work it took to go from walk-on to Heisman.

The reason for some concern was based on Baker's apparent private comments to various people in braggadocios ways about how he doesn't "have to train like other QBs." He apprently let down in a moment when not being fully engaged with the Chargers saying he doesn't "believe in any of that stuff" when he was told about Phillip Rivers' routine and whether he planned to do any sort of those things as well. In other meetings/discussion, he was dismissive about other types of rigorous preparation questions and apparently seemed like he truly believed he was the type of Favre-talent that didn't need to bother himself with a lot of the success regimens that help a QB achieve long-term success.

At the time, I thought Baker just had a healthy/great disdain for "a bunch of non-football drills where a guy runs with a broom stick at you while you drop back" type of stuff. All that was perfectly great and made sense but then there were other similar type stories that people in and around the scouting business had. Ultimately, I chalked that up to youthful unawareness or misunderstandings and nothing much else.

To this point though, I've neither heard anything to counter some of those early concerns. Of course that isn't proof positive positive of anything definitive but coupled with his regression in core fundamentals and eye-cues when I say "I'm not confident that Baker will commit to elite of elite things" those are the type ]type of things behind my uncertainty/beliefs at this current time.