Jimmy Garoppolo Appreciation Thread

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

If we’re talking solely re-tread QBs, I’d throw a late round pick at Jacksonville for Minshew. If nothing else he’s a good backup and costs a fraction of the money of guys like Winston and Darnold. (Plus Minshew was my late round sleeper his draft year so teaming him with Shanny might make me look like I know what I’m talking about). 

If we are acquiring Minshew, I'd only do it to be the starter (probably paired with a first round pick). If I'm going that route, I'm all in lol 

[GW21]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

If we are acquiring Minshew, I'd only do it to be the starter (probably paired with a first round pick). If I'm going that route, I'm all in lol 

Absolutely. This is in the scenario that we are determined to get rid of Jimmy or bring in some guy to try and fix. I have 0 interest in bringing in Jameis, Wentz, or Darnold to be our starter. If we wanted to pay someone to throw interceptions for us we can just keep CJ and pay him pennies on the dollar. I still maintain that Jimmy will probably be our opening day starting QB. I just hope we bring in someone to develop behind him for when he inevitably gets hurt again. Dream scenario is Wilson, but that’s looking a little more bleak as time goes one.

[757-NINER]

25 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Tannehill was the same QB he is now before his ACL in 2017 and then he had a down year in 2018 coming back from it and having Gase. Tannehill had shown the ability which isn't the case for Darnold. Could Darnold turn it around with good coaching and better play calling? Offcourse but this isn't comparable to the Tannehill situation. 

Tannehill was in the league for 4 years before the ACL injury so he had time to actually develop, something Darnold wont have the luxury to do if they draft another QB.

Tannehill had pretty good years in '14 & '15 but he was pretty average in is time in Miami. Most Dolphins fan would agree with that assessment. He didn't have the run game he has now to take some of the load off of him but he wasn't re-signed for a reason.

I'm not advocating for us to sign Darnold to be the de facto starter and QBOTF. I'm saying bring him in and see what's left there to be salvaged. I think he could flourish under Shanny but if not, you lose very little. 

 

[757-NINER]

27 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Absolutely. This is in the scenario that we are determined to get rid of Jimmy or bring in some guy to try and fix. I have 0 interest in bringing in Jameis, Wentz, or Darnold to be our starter. If we wanted to pay someone to throw interceptions for us we can just keep CJ and pay him pennies on the dollar. I still maintain that Jimmy will probably be our opening day starting QB. I just hope we bring in someone to develop behind him for when he inevitably gets hurt again. Dream scenario is Wilson, but that’s looking a little more bleak as time goes one.

There difference between Jameis and Jimmy is minuscule. The only thing Jimmy has going for him is that he's been in the system for 3 years so he knows the offense as well as anyone.

But if you factor in the money, there's very little reason why we shouldn't be interested in a guy like Winston as opposed to rolling with Jimmy for another year.

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, 757-NINER said:

Tannehill was in the league for 4 years before the ACL injury so he had time to actually develop, something Darnold wont have the luxury to do if they draft another QB.

Tannehill had pretty good years in '14 & '15 but he was pretty average in is time in Miami. Most Dolphins fan would agree with that assessment. He didn't have the run game he has now to take some of the load off of him but he wasn't re-signed for a reason.

I'm not advocating for us to sign Darnold to be the de facto starter and QBOTF. I'm saying bring him in and see what's left there to be salvaged. I think he could flourish under Shanny but if not, you lose very little. 

 

He had an upward trajectory in his first four years and yeah he wasn't a top 5 QB which he still isn't. He was in that 10-15 group where i would still put him so i would say he is still the same QB he was in Miami. The team around him is a big difference which for QB's in that range is a big difference in how they look. He was good enough to earn a second contract and honestly i don't think there is much difference between his Dolphins career and say Goff's so far.

 

For Darnold i am all for getting him in if its cheap and seeing if there is something there but really aside from a few plays he hasn't shown any improvement from College where he got most of the hype for thos bowl games where he was absolutely amazing.

[GW21]

4 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

There difference between Jameis and Jimmy is minuscule. The only thing Jimmy has going for him is that he's been in the system for 3 years so he knows the offense as well as anyone.

But if you factor in the money, there's very little reason why we shouldn't be interested in a guy like Winston as opposed to rolling with Jimmy for another year.

Just looking at the last year they both started Jameis had 6 more TD passes and 17 more interceptions. I wouldn’t call that a minuscule difference. BA is supposed to be a great coach and couldn’t do anything with Winston. I understand they play a completely different type of offense, but that still isn’t encouraging. The Saints also decided to start Taysom Hill, a guy who hadn’t ever thrown a TD pass before his first start over Winston; not exactly a glowing endorsement.

[Forge]

37 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Just looking at the last year they both started Jameis had 6 more TD passes and 17 more interceptions. I wouldn’t call that a minuscule difference. BA is supposed to be a great coach and couldn’t do anything with Winston. I understand they play a completely different type of offense, but that still isn’t encouraging. The Saints also decided to start Taysom Hill, a guy who hadn’t ever thrown a TD pass before his first start over Winston; not exactly a glowing endorsement.

 While on the surface I get what you're saying, the truth is that there is a lot more context to these that aren't being acknowledged. 

 Jimmy G is a caretaker who's average throw is second lowest in the NFL last year. The fact that he threw as many picks as he did is horrifying. He threw the ball 6.5 yards down the field on average (Brees was lower). Jameis the last two years has throw the ball over 10 yards down the field. How big of a difference is that? On throws 15 yards down the field, Jimmy G has a ten percent INT rate under Shanny. He's made those throws less than 130 times under shanny and has 13 interceptions per Jack Hammer at SI. When you think of it in that manner, you start to see some cracks. How often is Winston throwing the ball down the field 15+ yards to get a nearly 11 yard average? 

As I mentioned before, Arians is known for inducing this at the start of his tenure. Andrew Luck's year with Arians resulted in a career high in interceptions (18). Carson Palmer's first year resulted in a career high total in ints (22) with a nearly 4% int rate. Ben had slightly better numbers, but still threw 26 ints his first two years which was an INT rate of 3%. 

So its really not enough to to acknowledge that there's a difference in system...it's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge impact on the play. I'm legitimately more concerned by Jimmy's 3% INT rate in Shanny's system. Winston  before last year had an INT rate of 3%, which is nearly identical to Jimmy's 2.9 INT rate under shanny, which requires it's QB to do a lot less than Winston has had to do in the past. Are we sure that we are in better hands with Jimmy? 

Also, with regards to Hill, again, this lacks context. Hill is their starter next year unless they go rookie, or are able to get Brees to work magic on his contract; there are no other external options.  It makes sense for them to start him this year. His salary for next season is more than 50% guaranteed and he has a 12 million dollar cap hit. For a team that is currently over 100 million over the cap next year, that's not really something you can do (paying Hill 12M) if you're not planning on making him a starter next season. 

 

[Forge]

If I can have Winston as my starter for 5-8 million next season on a one year deal with a rookie as opposed to Jimmy at 27, I'm doing it (assuming Shanny signs off on his belief that Winston can navigate the system which is a huge factor that I personally can't evaluate as a fan). That difference is so huge financially, and even if you think Jimmy is better (not a guarantee), there's no reason why is should be considered that big of a gap. The difference in their salary legitimately pays for the first year of Warner's new contract if not more. You pay less, get comparable production, and don't have to pay an asset to acquire him because he's a free agent. 

The others are a little more questionable because guys like Darnold will require an asset to acquire. 

[GW21]

13 minutes ago, Forge said:

 While on the surface I get what you're saying, the truth is that there is a lot more context to these that aren't being acknowledged. 

 Jimmy G is a caretaker who's average throw is second lowest in the NFL last year. The fact that he threw as many picks as he did is horrifying. He threw the ball 6.5 yards down the field on average (Brees was lower). Jameis the last two years has throw the ball over 10 yards down the field. How big of a difference is that? On throws 15 yards down the field, Jimmy G has a ten percent INT rate under Shanny. He's made those throws less than 130 times under shanny and has 13 interceptions per Jack Hammer at SI. When you think of it in that manner, you start to see some cracks. How often is Winston throwing the ball down the field 15+ yards to get a nearly 11 yard average? 

As I mentioned before, Arians is known for inducing this at the start of his tenure. Andrew Luck's year with Arians resulted in a career high in interceptions (18). Carson Palmer's first year resulted in a career high total in ints (22) with a nearly 4% int rate. Ben had slightly better numbers, but still threw 26 ints his first two years which was an INT rate of 3%. 

So its really not enough to to acknowledge that there's a difference in system...it's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge impact on the play. I'm legitimately more concerned by Jimmy's 3% INT rate in Shanny's system. Winston  before last year had an INT rate of 3%, which is nearly identical to Jimmy's 2.9 INT rate under shanny, which requires it's QB to do a lot less than Winston has had to do in the past. Are we sure that we are in better hands with Jimmy? 

Also, with regards to Hill, again, this lacks context. Hill is their starter next year unless they go rookie, or are able to get Brees to work magic on his contract; there are no other external options.  It makes sense for them to start him this year. His salary for next season is more than 50% guaranteed and he has a 12 million dollar cap hit. For a team that is currently over 100 million over the cap next year, that's not really something you can do (paying Hill 12M) if you're not planning on making him a starter next season. 

 

I understand the impact of BAs offense, but that only goes so far. I’ve seen Jameis throw far too many egregious INTs that I can’t blame on the scheme. I don’t think you can blame a 30 int season on scheme. As far as the Taysom Hill comment, I thought he was on a one  year deal and that was a big reason why Winston chose the Saints as the idea was that he could take over after Drew Brees retired after this year. I checked spotrac and Taysom is under contract for next year too. Idk, I just don’t have a good feeling about rolling out Winston. I really hope our QB problems don’t end up costing Kyle and Lynch their jobs because I feel like they are building something special here.

[Forge]

19 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I understand the impact of BAs offense, but that only goes so far. I’ve seen Jameis throw far too many egregious INTs that I can’t blame on the scheme. I don’t think you can blame a 30 int season on scheme.

No, but that scheme + guy who is careless with the football + down season can easily account for it. LIS, Jimmy has a ten percent INT rate on throws of 15 yards or more under Shanny. You don't think that he could put up a 30 INT season in the right circumstances such as those? Keep in mind, his career INT rate is only nominally better than Winston's INT rate prior to last season having to do far less. Jimmy's career INT rate is 2.9% with the niners, Winston's before last year was 3%. The thing I'm saying has less to do with Winston and more to the fact that Jimmy is nearly just as bad / careless with the football. 

[757-NINER]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

No, but that scheme + guy who is careless with the football + down season can easily account for it. LIS, Jimmy has a ten percent INT rate on throws of 15 yards or more under Shanny. You don't think that he could put up a 30 INT season in the right circumstances such as those? Keep in mind, his career INT rate is only nominally better than Winston's INT rate prior to last season having to do far less. Jimmy's career INT rate is 2.9%, Winston's before last year was 3%. The thing I'm saying has less to do with Winston and more to the fact that Jimmy is nearly just as bad / careless with the football. 

And just to piggyback off of this, we've seen what this team can do with merely competent QB play. We damn near won a SB. That's all you're really asking Winston to do. BA is severely overrated IMO. He's put all his QB through hell, sans Palmer who just happen to have the attributes that mesh well with what Arians likes from his QB.  

If we ALL agree that we don't have even a potential franchise QB on the roster currently, tell me what do we lose moving on from Jimmy besides continuity??? If we're in QB purgatory anyway, might as well go with the cheaper option that allows us to at least replenish the defensive side of the ball and still be somewhat elite there.

 

[GW21]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

No, but that scheme + guy who is careless with the football + down season can easily account for it. LIS, Jimmy has a ten percent INT rate on throws of 15 yards or more under Shanny. You don't think that he could put up a 30 INT season in the right circumstances such as those? Keep in mind, his career INT rate is only nominally better than Winston's INT rate prior to last season having to do far less. Jimmy's career INT rate is 2.9%, Winston's before last year was 3%. The thing I'm saying has less to do with Winston and more to the fact that Jimmy is nearly just as bad / careless with the football. 

Yeah, I’m in no way defending Jimmy. He has got to be better. I guess I just don’t see it with Winston. Out of all the 1st rounders that have fallen out of favor Haskins would be my choice. He hasn’t been great, but I think he could improve if given some time. At the end of the day I don’t think we move on from Jimmy unless there is clearly a better option, which to me would only be Matt Ryan or Matt Stanford. I think the most likely outcome is we draft someone and roll with Jimmy. I could be completely wrong though. It’s happened before.

[Forge]

1 minute ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Yeah, I’m in no way defending Jimmy. He has got to be better. I guess I just don’t see it with Winston. Out of all the 1st rounders that have fallen out of favor Haskins would be my choice. He hasn’t been great, but I think he could improve if given some time. At the end of the day I don’t think we move on from Jimmy unless there is clearly a better option, which to me would only be Matt Ryan or Matt Stanford. I think the most likely outcome is we draft someone and roll with Jimmy. I could be completely wrong though. It’s happened before.

Oh, I think most likely outcome is certainly running it  back with Jimmy, I'm just not sure that I support it. Honestly, I don't know. They all have drawbacks / pros. That's the really tough part about QB purgatory. I am all in on getting Stafford, though I think he'd cost to much to acquire. Way too many teams would be in on him (I also think that they won't move on from him - Robert Mays had an interesting piece about first year GMs and their reticence to pick a QB in their first year if they don't have the #1 overall pick) 

[GW21]

7 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

And just to piggyback off of this, we've seen what this team can do with merely competent QB play. We damn near won a SB. That's all you're really asking Winston to do. BA is severely overrated IMO. He's put all his QB through hell, sans Palmer who just happen to have the attributes that mesh well with what Arians likes from his QB.  

If we ALL agree that we don't have even a potential franchise QB on the roster currently, tell me what do we lose moving on from Jimmy besides continuity??? If we're in QB purgatory anyway, might as well go with the cheaper option that allows us to at least replenish the defensive side of the ball and still be somewhat elite there.

 

I don’t think Jimmy is the QBOTF, but I do think he’s better than Winston. We almost took the SB home with Jimmy and an awesome defense. I think we could get back with Jimmy. That’s why I think this year is so important at the QB position. We had a down year and landed Bosa, we’re having a bad year this year and may put us in a position to go get that QBOTF. We can still drop Jimmy after next season when Fred’s money would need to be available.

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I don’t think Jimmy is the QBOTF, but I do think he’s better than Winston. We almost took the SB home with Jimmy and an awesome defense. I think we could get back with Jimmy. That’s why I think this year is so important at the QB position. We had a down year and landed Bosa, we’re having a bad year this year and may put us in a position to go get that QBOTF. We can still drop Jimmy after next season when Fred’s money would need to be available.

This is the problem though - that defense wasn't just awesome...for a good chunk of the season, it was historic. Putting that defense back down on paper is nearly impossible under the best of circumstances...its impossible at this point. You're capped with Jimmy. That's not a knock on him as a QB...that's the case with most in the league. But here's the thing...if you're a 35 million dollar QB, I'm willing to pay it...if you're not, there's not such thing as a 27 million dollar QB. Do you know what I mean? At that point, your best interest is going cheap so that you can try and re-manufacture that awesome defense.