Jimmy Garoppolo Appreciation Thread

[GW21]

11 minutes ago, Forge said:

This is the problem though - that defense wasn't just awesome...for a good chunk of the season, it was historic. Putting that defense back down on paper is nearly impossible under the best of circumstances...its impossible at this point. You're capped with Jimmy. That's not a knock on him as a QB...that's the case with most in the league. But here's the thing...if you're a 35 million dollar QB, I'm willing to pay it...if you're not, there's not such thing as a 27 million dollar QB. Do you know what I mean? At that point, your best interest is going cheap so that you can try and re-manufacture that awesome defense. 

I get what you are saying, but I don’t see how keeping Jimmy for one more year prevents that. If you think we’re going to go out and add some big pieces on defense this year if we dump Jimmy then I get it. I think we can bring back Warner without dumping Jimmy which is our biggest piece on the defense. Sherm isn’t worth what he’ll get paid at this point and that basically leaves us with Verrett and some depth guys. You’re way more in tune with how these contracts are structured, but wouldn’t Fred’s money kick in in 2022 on an extension generally? I think we’re in lock step as far as what we do long term, draft a rookie high and move forward with him on his rookie contract. I think our only disagreement is how we approach 2021. 

[757-NINER]

19 minutes ago, Forge said:

This is the problem though - that defense wasn't just awesome...for a good chunk of the season, it was historic. Putting that defense back down on paper is nearly impossible under the best of circumstances...its impossible at this point. You're capped with Jimmy. That's not a knock on him as a QB...that's the case with most in the league. But here's the thing...if you're a 35 million dollar QB, I'm willing to pay it...if you're not, there's not such thing as a 27 million dollar QB. Do you know what I mean? At that point, your best interest is going cheap so that you can try and re-manufacture that awesome defense. 

EXCATLY!

If you want to replicate the 2019 team it has to start with the defense. And there's no way that makeover can happen with a mediocre QB earning 27 million.

[Forge]

8 hours ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

You’re way more in tune with how these contracts are structured, but wouldn’t Fred’s money kick in in 2022 on an extension generally?

It's something that can vary by contract, but typically what you'll see is the base salary for the final year stay the same, but the team gives a signing bonus and they have the signing hit right away for the first year proration. That's what we did with kittle, and I would assume what we do with Warner

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Some of the commentary in this thread has been a house of horrors. 

Winston or Darnold as the equalizer. My god people. My god. 

I don't care what folks think of Jimmy, a yahoo like Winston isn't the answer. How cheap he is is irrelevant. Your franchise has zero chance when he's the triggerman. You sign him to be your opening day starter, you're nuking the season from the jump. A historic defense isn't going to save you. The stars coming together for that is harder than finding a good QB. Way too much emphasis here on dollar signs instead of first downs and TD passes. Especially now that there is only 1 first round BYE per conference. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[NinerNation21]

4 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Some of the commentary in this thread has been a house of horrors. 

Winston or Darnold as the equalizer. My god people. My god. 

I don't care what folks think of Jimmy, a yahoo like Winston isn't the answer. How cheap he is is irrelevant. Your franchise has zero chance when he's the triggerman. You sign him to be your opening day starter, you're nuking the season from the jump. A historic defense isn't going to save you. The stars coming together for that is harder than finding a good QB. Way too much emphasis here on dollar signs instead of first downs and TD passes. Especially now that there is only 1 first round BYE per conference. 

For real. Jimmy is not a bad QB. He was really, really good last year and made a ton of big-time throws. He was injured most of this year and had a turnstile for a center. Jimmy most definitely should be our starting QB next season as he's the best option available. 

[John232]

my only Caveat would be is if we could get Darnold for like..a third? (Highly,highly unlikely). I would pull the trigger and jsut hold onto Jimmy for another year. That said, if we end up picking in the top 8..hell..at 4...Then I don't see how you don't take a shot at Zach Wilson. 

[GW21]

Just now, John232 said:

my only Caveat would be is if we could get Darnold for like..a third? (Highly,highly unlikely). I would pull the trigger and jsut hold onto Jimmy for another year. That said, if we end up picking in the top 8..hell..at 4...Then I don't see how you don't take a shot at Zach Wilson. 

if the Cowgirls beat us then we are going to be picking in the top 10 I think as I don't see any way we beat the Cards or the Seahawks. I think we just need to bite the bullet and draft a QB high this year, even if it means trading up. Zach Wilson is my dream scenario. @Forge brought up a good point in the Draft forum about Wilson already having had a couple of injuries in his college career, but honestly, outside of Lawrence he's probably my favorite QB prospect. As you can see in the previous posts, I'm on board with keeping Jimmy for one more year and grooming a young QB behind him (hopefully Wilson).

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, John232 said:

my only Caveat would be is if we could get Darnold for like..a third? (Highly,highly unlikely). I would pull the trigger and jsut hold onto Jimmy for another year. That said, if we end up picking in the top 8..hell..at 4...Then I don't see how you don't take a shot at Zach Wilson. 

If we pick top 8, then we can easily get to the top 5-6 if need be for say someone like Wilson or maybe even Fields. I think Fields likely goes top 2, but in case he falls then a move for him can be made. Lance is right there as well and he's probably my favorite at this moment or at least tied with Wilson. I like Lance's size more but both can make pretty much all the throws. Lance is going to be super raw but Shanny can have a system ready for him in year one where it is pretty safe and would make it easy for him. PLEASE finish in the top 8! 

[John232]

30 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If we pick top 8, then we can easily get to the top 5-6 if need be for say someone like Wilson or maybe even Fields. I think Fields likely goes top 2, but in case he falls then a move for him can be made. Lance is right there as well and he's probably my favorite at this moment or at least tied with Wilson. I like Lance's size more but both can make pretty much all the throws. Lance is going to be super raw but Shanny can have a system ready for him in year one where it is pretty safe and would make it easy for him. PLEASE finish in the top 8! 

I would be really intrigued by Trey Lance. I'm not sure I'd take him over Wilson, but if Wilson goes ahead of him, which I have no doubt he will, then Lance would be a great dude for us to take a shot on as the QBOTF. I 100% agree with you that Shanny will have a system or set of plays ready for him. But the interesting move in that situation is what to do with Jimmy. Running two systems is hard, but it may end up being something similar to Baltimore with Flacoo/Jackson. I think the transition will be hard for Lance, so I think having him sit a year would be a very smart play. I get playing him right away and wouldn't hate it, but it scare me. 

But I think there's a real argument for Lance being the most all-around physically gifted QB in this class. Lawrence is ridiculous in his own right and FIelds is really great too, but Lance has that cheat code feeling if you can harness it. 

[NinerNation21]

31 minutes ago, John232 said:

my only Caveat would be is if we could get Darnold for like..a third? (Highly,highly unlikely). I would pull the trigger and jsut hold onto Jimmy for another year. That said, if we end up picking in the top 8..hell..at 4...Then I don't see how you don't take a shot at Zach Wilson. 

I'm almost positive we're going to be picking, at minimum, around #12. If we lose out and things break a certain way, we could be picking within the top 10. If that's the case, QB has to be the #1 priority simply because good teams picking this high don't happen every year. And when it does, you always have to look QB. 

[Forge]

7 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Some of the commentary in this thread has been a house of horrors. 

Winston or Darnold as the equalizer. My god people. My god. 

I don't care what folks think of Jimmy, a yahoo like Winston isn't the answer. How cheap he is is irrelevant. Your franchise has zero chance when he's the triggerman. You sign him to be your opening day starter, you're nuking the season from the jump. A historic defense isn't going to save you. The stars coming together for that is harder than finding a good QB. Way too much emphasis here on dollar signs instead of first downs and TD passes. Especially now that there is only 1 first round BYE per conference. 

If you're going to quote me, you should keep it in there. I still get the notification, after all. 

I have no problem with people saying that about Winston, but the idea that money is irrelevant is not a good take and Jimmy has been nearly as careless with the football as Winston over his career outside of last year. That's just fact....not really commentary. The way that Jimmy plays this game as a caretaker, he should have an INT rate less than 2%. The fact that his rate is nearly 3% is horrifying and I'm not sure how Jimmy Stans don't acknowledge that. Derek Carr has played an insanely similar game the last two years and his int rate is about 1.5. Brees' has been 1%. Those are the two closest starters and then there's kind of a huge jump in terms of how often QBs throw down field.  I mean, Gardner Minshew throws the ball down field on average a good chunk more (on average more than half a yard) and has an INT rate of less than 1.5%. People can give Winston crap about the turnovers and I get it, but the failure to acknowledge how bad Jimmy is in this regard kind of blows my  mind. 

LIS, there should be no such thing as a 27 million QB. He can't carry a team and he just sucks up money for putting up a good team around him. It's sort of the funny thing about it. You want to take your chance paying him 27 million and not fielding as good of a team around him, thats up to you....but there is definitely valid arguments to be made at moneyballing that position instead (pick your poison; Minshew, Winston, Darnold) to put a better team around the QB. There's nothing that suggests that either methodology has more merit because it's based solely on how you subjectively evaluate the QB. I don't think Jimmy is very good...so replacing him with another QB who is not very good but cheaper is fine with me and I do think that some people would actually like the higher variance of other quarterbacks though, to be honest. IF winston bottoms out, then the team just picks high, and that's probably the ultimate goal anyway; getting a quarterback selected highly who is great and can be on a rookie deal. If people want to remain bullish on Jimmy, I also have no problem with that. Not something I particularly agree with, but I get spying that occasional good game and thinking maybe it can carry over. I just see him missing so much that I don't particularly love what I'm seeing. 

[757-NINER]

5 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Some of the commentary in this thread has been a house of horrors. 

Winston or Darnold as the equalizer. My god people. My god. 

I don't care what folks think of Jimmy, a yahoo like Winston isn't the answer. How cheap he is is irrelevant. Your franchise has zero chance when he's the triggerman. You sign him to be your opening day starter, you're nuking the season from the jump. A historic defense isn't going to save you. The stars coming together for that is harder than finding a good QB. Way too much emphasis here on dollar signs instead of first downs and TD passes. Especially now that there is only 1 first round BYE per conference. 

The root of the matter is Jimmy isn't worth 27 million. Hell, he isn't worth 17 millon. I think some of you have actually forgotten what a legit NFL QB looks like in a Niners uniform. 

Winston under center is no different than Jimmy. There will be maddening throws and decision-making, wildly inconsistent accuracy and costly ints. 

Only difference is Winston will actually throw the ball deep....and hit on a few. And maybe his legs allows him to navigate the pocket a little better. Oh....and he'll cost a little over 20 mil less.

 

 

 

 

[Forge]

44 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

if the Cowgirls beat us then we are going to be picking in the top 10 I think as I don't see any way we beat the Cards or the Seahawks. I think we just need to bite the bullet and draft a QB high this year, even if it means trading up. Zach Wilson is my dream scenario. @Forge brought up a good point in the Draft forum about Wilson already having had a couple of injuries in his college career, but honestly, outside of Lawrence he's probably my favorite QB prospect. As you can see in the previous posts, I'm on board with keeping Jimmy for one more year and grooming a young QB behind him (hopefully Wilson).

It's kind of crazy...and I have legitimately never seen it mentioned anywhere. Not ideal injuries either...shoulder and hand lol. I already can't trust Jimmy to stay healthy

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, John232 said:

I would be really intrigued by Trey Lance. I'm not sure I'd take him over Wilson, but if Wilson goes ahead of him, which I have no doubt he will, then Lance would be a great dude for us to take a shot on as the QBOTF. I 100% agree with you that Shanny will have a system or set of plays ready for him. But the interesting move in that situation is what to do with Jimmy. Running two systems is hard, but it may end up being something similar to Baltimore with Flacoo/Jackson. I think the transition will be hard for Lance, so I think having him sit a year would be a very smart play. I get playing him right away and wouldn't hate it, but it scare me. 

But I think there's a real argument for Lance being the most all-around physically gifted QB in this class. Lawrence is ridiculous in his own right and FIelds is really great too, but Lance has that cheat code feeling if you can harness it. 

If we keep Jimmy and draft Lance, then that would allow us to have a chance to win next year while allowing Lance to sit and learn for a season. Only drawback with that plan is as @Forge mentioned, that will be two seasons back to back with no game action. That's pretty rough right there. A QB needs to learn often times with trial by error. But if they think he will fine and it is more valuable for him to sit and learn, then so be it. IF he needs to play year one, I don't think it will be a disaster because Shanahan will have a system for him that won't overwhelm him. He will dummy it down and call up a bunch of plays to get the YAC monsters the ball in space. The play action will be effective as well and he should be mainly okay. But the upside is crazy and you can see a Josh Allen type of jump from him in a few years. Hard to pass up IMO. 

[GW21]

5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

If we keep Jimmy and draft Lance, then that would allow us to have a chance to win next year while allowing Lance to sit and learn for a season. Only drawback with that plan is as @Forge mentioned, that will be two seasons back to back with no game action. That's pretty rough right there. A QB needs to learn often times with trial by error. But if they think he will fine and it is more valuable for him to sit and learn, then so be it. IF he needs to play year one, I don't think it will be a disaster because Shanahan will have a system for him that won't overwhelm him. He will dummy it down and call up a bunch of plays to get the YAC monsters the ball in space. The play action will be effective as well and he should be mainly okay. But the upside is crazy and you can see a Josh Allen type of jump from him in a few years. Hard to pass up IMO. 

I like Lance as well, he does seem to have more of a build to take the pounding of an NFL season than Wilson does. I do think that is why I think it would also be valuable for Wilson to be able to sit behind Jimmy for a year; it'd give him the opportunity to fill out a bit before taking all the hits an NFL QB will have to take. I don't want any part of Jones or Trask in round 1. To me there are 4 round 1 QBs in this draft, one of which should be available when we pick. I do hope that we don't just sit there and take who's left over though. If there is someone our staff really likes and sees as a fit I hope they are aggressive in their pursuit.