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Jimmy Garoppolo Appreciation Thread


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29 minutes ago, Forge said:

I just provided what I said. Rough look for you (again), I know. But keep just screaming how you're right and everyone else is the foolish one. 

Well I don't really adhere to argumentum ad populum, but that's just me I guess.

Yup, rough look for me on an internet football forum. Oh the humanity :)

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1 minute ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Well I don't really ahere to argumentum ad populum, but that's just me I guess.

Yup, rough look for me on an internet football forum. Oh the humanity :)

Bye Now GIFs | Tenor

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18 minutes ago, John232 said:

I mean, I don't want to pile on. But there's been no goal post shifting. The point is that Jimmy is replaceable. You can debate about whether or not Jameis is better, etc. But that's not the point. Jimmy, Foles, Jameis, Dalton. Pick your poison, they're all on the spectrum of mediocrity. Jimmy had his moments in 2019, but between injuries and massive volatility (which seems to be a debate here and i'm not sure why. Jameis is not a good comparison as the dude is literally one of the most volatile QB in NFL history), in short he's not worth his paycheck now that we have other dudes we gotta pay.

For Example,  you can pay 10 million for someone like Dalton, keep Warner and Verrett or pay 27 Million for Jimmy G  This is literally about resource management. If Jimmy G was younger and had shown the physical gifts of an elite QB and just hadn't put together the consistency, then I think there would be a much more dignified argument for keeping him. But he's not that. His physical skills are mediocre and his whole game is suppose to be high level game management (Truly not an insult) who can keep our RAC monster in positions to dominate and not making mistakes, Especially in the clutch. He hasn't really done that to the level we need him too, especially when he was healthy this year. All we're literally asking him to do is be Something akin to Kirk Cousins or Derek Carr and that's even hard for him to manage at this juncture. Quite literally, we just want prime Alex Smith..and that appears to be a challenge for him. 

I don't hate the guy, I don't think he's inherently bad, but he's not worth what were paying him and unfortunately our team is backed into a corner financially to where we don't have the luxury of overpaying him. 

 

 

I don't think it's either one of the other though. I'm by no means a cap guru, but it would seem to me we could still resign guys like Trent Williams, Fred Warner, & Verrett while Jimmy is still on the books for '21. It may be harder to do, but we still can cut Jimmy next offseason with minimal cap hit when we could expect Fred Warners salary to skyrocket. Regardless of what veteran QB is on the roster next year, we need to take a QB high this year. I don't think anyone will argue that Jimmy, Jameis, Darnold, or whatever re-tread that is kicking around out there is the answer to our future. What I don't want to see happen is Shanahan and Lynch getting fired because they decided to put our future on any of those guys. To me Jimmy has more upside for us in '21 than any of the other guys being kicked around not named Stafford or Ryan and we can still bail on his contract after next year. Hell if he plays well we may be able to recoup some of his value and get a pick for him in a trade. The fact is that Jimmy has won more often than not on this team. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. 

Just to be clear. If I thought that keeping Jimmy an additional year would cost us Fred Warner or possibly even Trent Williams I would not be pushing to ride it out with him one more year.

Edited by Gore Whore 21
grammar is hard.
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12 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I don't think it's either one of the other though. I'm by no means a cap guru, but it would seem to me we could still resign guys like Trent Williams, Fred Warner, & Verrett while Jimmy is still on the books for '21. It may be harder to do, but we still can cut Jimmy next offseason with minimal cap hit when we could expect Fred Warners salary to skyrocket. Regardless of what veteran QB is on the roster next year, we need to take a QB high this year. I don't think anyone will argue that Jimmy, Jameis, Darnold, or whatever re-tread that is kicking around out there is the answer to our future. What I don't want to see happen is Shanahan and Lynch getting fired because they decided to put our future on any of those guys. To me Jimmy has more upside for us in '21 than any of the other guys being kicked around not named Stafford or Ryan and we can still bail on his contract after next year. Hell if he plays well we may be able to recoup some of his value and get a pick for him in a trade. The fact is that Jimmy has won more often than not on this team. Better the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. 

Just to be clear. If I thought that keeping Jimmy an additional year would cost us Fred Warner or possibly even Trent Williams I would not be pushing to ride it out with him one more year.

And this is the issue. The bolded right there. How big is the upside if we can't bring back certain people or can't add certain people. It's the hilarious nature of QB purgatory. I think you said it earlier, if we were going to spend that money on big name people, you'd do it. But the funny thing is if you're not going to do that, you still have no need for Jimmy on the team because he's not good enough to carry or improve an above average team. That's the part that always makes me laugh about the whole mess because you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you don't move away from him, you can't add the required pieces that we were talking about that made us elite previously. If you do move away from him, you may get worse at the most important position in sports and that difference may cancel out any improvements you bring on board lol. 

There's just a cost an evaluation to everything. It's not just about who is better and who is worse in a vacuum. For me, Winston is a guy I would take that chance on. Darnold probably not. Minshew, I think yes (so weird to say that). Wentz is pricey, but he has the ceiling to be an elite guy that can carry a team. I personally no longer see that ceiling, but others still do. 

As for what you're saying about signing them all ? Depends on the cap. We have 22 million right now and have to pay a rookie class that will cost about 8.3 million, so that knocks out our rollover and depletes a couple million from the top right away, leaving us about 19M.  David Bakhtiari's first year cap hit is 19 million if you want a comparable tackle contract. That's not great. Oh, and Nick Bosa can sign an extension after next season and we are not sure if we can dump Ford right now because of his injury guarantee and he doesn't save a whole ton (6 million). If the cap comes in at 195, then we have a better chance for sure. 

Thats why the absolute no brainer option is draft a guy. That 100% has to be the target for this team. After that....I think you're kind of just floating along the same result regardless.  None of us really know what is going to work and what isn't. I don't think that Jimmy works best, you do. Jimmy on a lower salary could definitely make sense, though Barrows has already said he doesn't see that as an option because of the optics. 

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7 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

What really sucks is that we restructured Richburg and Ford. That's over 18% of our cap right there and they don't even get on the field to have a chance to suck. 

And ford with the injury guarantee LOL

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4 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I don't think it's either one of the other though. I'm by no means a cap guru, but it would seem to me we could still resign guys like Trent Williams, Fred Warner, & Verrett while Jimmy is still on the books for '21. It may be harder to do, but we still can cut Jimmy next offseason with minimal cap hit when we could expect Fred Warners salary to skyrocket. Regardless of what veteran QB is on the roster next year, we need to take a QB high this year. I don't think anyone will argue that Jimmy, Jameis, Darnold, or whatever re-tread that is kicking around out there is the answer to our future. What I don't want to see happen is Shanahan and Lynch getting fired because they decided to put our future on any of those guys. To me Jimmy has more upside for us in '21 than any of the other guys being kicked around not named Stafford or Ryan and we can still bail on his contract after next year. Hell if he plays well we may be able to recoup some of his value and get a pick for him in a trade. The fact is that Jimmy has won more often than not on this team. Better the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. 

Just to be clear. If I thought that keeping Jimmy an additional year would cost us Fred Warner or possibly even Trent Williams I would not be pushing to ride it out with him one more year.

Yes, to your point, i'm not sure what the actual numbers would be. Obviously that's the whole quandry. If managmenet believes they can make it all work and they KNOW they can pull it off. Go for it because I agree, we should be taking QB Regardless. I just don't want us to lose out on talent because of Jimmy. 

 

As I guess for the original point, as for @TecmoSuperJoe I would agree with the notion that both Darnold, and Winston are worse than Jimmy. But it's not Nutty. That's the point. We're arguing replacement level. Money is no issue, I will take Jimmy 10/10 over those two guys. At least right now. But money has to be considered in any evaluation.

 

Furthermore, the level of play is almost a moot point with Shanny as your HC. I believe (as Forge laid out) that Shanny is doing a lot of heavy lifting for Jimmy G AND our entire QB room.. Acquiring someone who might worse right now, but cheaper(Jameis/Darnold for example),  with some actual physical talent..it's not implausible to think that we would be in a better position long term  make us a better team due to cap flexibility but also just based on what Shanny could do with their actual arm talent.  II mean, look at what Shanny has done with Mullens..I have no doubt in my mind he could get something out of Winston and Darnold that is semi-comparable to Jimmy. 

 

But I also don't want to pile on, I mean, I get it. Jimmy has had some great moments. I just think he leaves a lot of people wanting. Hopefully by 2022 we're back in position to win a SB. 

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3 minutes ago, John232 said:

As I guess for the original point, as for @TecmoSuperJoe I would agree with the notion that both Darnold, and Winston are worse than Jimmy. But it's not Nutty. That's the point. We're arguing replacement level. Money is no issue, I will take Jimmy 10/10 over those two guys. At least right now. But money has to be considered in any evaluation.

I already said Jimmy needs to take a paycut. If he won't, then draft a guy and have at it.

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Just now, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I already said Jimmy needs to take a paycut.

I was making an edit.

 

Why would he do that? Why would we do that? I don't see the incentive to ask him to take a  serious paycut. I mean, this is a negotiation thing, so who knows what gets said at the table. But if I'm Jimmy, with my injury history..there is no effin way I take a paycut. I'd rather be cut. 

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3 minutes ago, John232 said:

I was making an edit.

 

Why would he do that? Why would we do that? I don't see the incentive to ask him to take a  serious paycut. I mean, this is a negotiation thing, so who knows what gets said at the table. But if I'm Jimmy, with my injury history..there is no effin way I take a paycut. I'd rather be cut. 

Yeah, and he has to do what's best for himself. That's fine. And he can be cut and try to find a better deal elsewhere. I'm not talking about from Jimmy's perspective. 

49ers save money, and draft a rookie QB they want. 

Edited by TecmoSuperJoe
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Reminder that the record for highest cap hit taken by a QB to ever win a super bowl is still Steve Young in the first year of the cap at 13.1%. Since then, only 6 other QBs taking up 10% or more have won the super bowl, I believe. 

Jimmy is at nearly 15% next season (based on projection, could change, obviously)

Now, there will come a time when that is broken (mahomes). There have been times QBs have been super bowl losers with a much higher hit. Matt Ryan was over 15% the year they lost. Peyton was 14% and 17%. The problem is that you're talking about an MVP and one of the GOATS

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2 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Call me when Jimmy throws 30 INTS, fumbles 15 times, or has an INT rate approaching 5%. Who cares if Winston is throwing the ball down the field more, he's killing his team with turnovers. He should cost less my goodness people. 

I do agree that Jimmy should take a lower salary, but trading him out for Winston is lunacy. You're nuking the season from the start if Winston is your replacement. Cool you save money. You ain't going nowhere. 

And we're going nowhere with Jimmy....your point? And before you go stating the obvious, we got to the SB in spite of Jimmy, not because of. Jimmy did no heavy letting in 2019 outside of the NO game. 

And I can pretty much guarantee you won't see the Jameis here that you saw in TB under Arians. Sometimes circumstances define the outcome, not necessarily your ability. 

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1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Yeah, and he has to do what's best for himself. That's fine. And he can be cut and try to find a better deal elsewhere. I'm not talking about from Jimmy's perspective. 

49ers save money, and draft a rookie QB they want. 

So your argument is a rookie QB > Winston??

I mean I can see how one would could come to that conclusion. I just don't see a rookie QB leading this team back to the playoffs. I mean its happened before....think the last was RG3 & Russ in 2012. But I'd rather have a rookie sit and learn a very complicated pro offense for a year before I throw him to the wolves. 

And it doesn't necessarily have to be Winston. It could be Tyrod Taylor. It could be Fitz. It could be Brissett. They are ALL pretty much the same player. 

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29 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Jimmy did no heavy letting in 2019 outside of the NO game. 

He was pretty awesome in the finale against Seattle, in fairness. That game was close because of shanny, not Jimmy. 

 

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