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Draft Talk 2020


SmittyBacall

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I can see it now.

Bengals take Burrow.  Burrow demands trade.  Mike tells him to go cry to his momma.  Burrow does that.

Ryan Finley starts all year, Bengals go 0-16, get #1 pick.  Take Lawrence #1 in 2021 draft, Burrow #33 and make him sit again.

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11 hours ago, sparky151 said:

You keep reciting the same argument about some good coaches who had bad starts. But Hue Jackson followed up his 1-15 season with 0-16.

So essentially there's evidence that the first year record isn't indicative whether he's a good coach or not, seeing as HOF coaches started terribly and some bad coaches remained bad. This is why everyone on this subforum has been saying, "Wait and see, not willing to write Zac off yet". You're not giving him a fair shake. 

11 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Taylor on the other hand took over a 6-10 team, claimed we weren't rebuilding but proceeded to suck with a 2-14 finish.

There are overt reasons why we dropped 4 games compared to last year. This isn't comparing apples to apples considering the drastic, unforeseen changes to our starting roster between the time Marvin left and Zac took over.

There are at least three significant reasons why we finished we a worse record. First, and most notably, our best player was injured for the entire season. I really can't emphasize that enough. AJ Green, the catalyst of the offense and perhaps the team, played 0 snaps all year. Just that in itself is worth two losses compared to 2018. Secondly, our offensive line, which was terrible to end the year in 2018, was ravaged even further by losing our only foundation piece to retirement (Boling), lost our top 10 pick for the year in rookie minicamp (Jonah), lost our starting LT for the first 12 games of the year (Glenn). We were forced to play numerous inept line combinations and developed no cohesiveness, and the offense struggled as a result. Lastly, Zac and the front office decided to accelerate the tank by starting Ryan Finley for three games, two of which could have easily won if Dalton started. It's not difficult to see how our record could drop off when you consider the hand Zac was dealt this year.

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My favorite comment I heard on the night of the national championship was that Zac Taylor should win coach of the year for starting Finley for that 3 game stretch securing the Bengals the top pick.  Dalton could have very possibly won 2 of those 3 and the 4-12 Bengals are now picking 5th or 6th.  I guess it would have been cool to draft Isaiah Simmons, but we'd still be in QB purgatory.

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2 hours ago, Beck Bristow said:

I don't watch those guys. Pretty easy to ignore. Also,  if Mike Brown sells the team,  our former forum member will look prophetic. Meaning, Bengals would be moved to London.

Not if he sells to someone with a contract saying they have to stay for 20 years or something along those lines.  He can sell local too.

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2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

ESPN is all about "hot takes" and "click bait".  Unless it's live sports, I don't even watch that network anymore because of things like the awful commentary like a player should refuse to play for a team because they aren't good.  I watched some of the pre-game show before the national championship and it was just cringe worthy.

Me either.  I actually work when those things are on.  But these takes have been all over multiple fan sites, and it's just hard to see people act that arrogantly without wanting to bash their collective faces in.

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13 hours ago, showtime said:

I saw the titles of a few shows today where there were people saying that Burrow should refuse to go to the Bengals.  Why is this?  I wasn't able to watch a lot of it.  Isn't Burrow the no-brainer pick?  Why would Burrow not want to play there?

Apparently they have one of the worst owners or GMs?  Mark Schlereth said he should force a trade because they'll never win anything and he said it was because of Mike Brown.

Burrow is a competitor. The Bengals haven't won a playoff game in Burrow's lifetime (plus several years) and have the longest current NFL streak without a playoff victory. The Bengals won't win a playoff game as currently operated because they can't win a playoff game. The team's front office is dysfunctional. As noted the owner, Mike Brown, is old fashioned. His dad Paul Brown was unjustifiably fired as coach of the Browns so Mike is overly loyal to coaches including the current guy. Paul Brown was opposed to free agency for players so Mike operates that way. He'll re-sign Bengals players like Bobby Hart who are out of contract but not bring in good players from other teams. In the past, some good players have used the Bengals to drive up the price for the teams they actually want to play for. Mike Brown seems to think that applies to all the top free agents so he sits on his hands the first week of free agency.

The team is committed to drafting and developing talent, at least in theory. Problem is they aren't very good at it. The last several drafts have been poor. Some players do improve each year but others don't. There's no competitive advantage vs our division rivals. Thus our last place finished the last couple of years. Our best players are over 30 now so the future isn't very bright.

If Burrow could convince the Bengals to trade the pick to another team, he'd almost by definition be in a better situation. Likewise if he sits out a year and goes back in the draft next year and is picked later by a better team.

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2 hours ago, theJ said:

I can see it now.

Bengals take Burrow.  Burrow demands trade.  Mike tells him to go cry to his momma.  Burrow does that.

Ryan Finley starts all year, Bengals go 0-16, get #1 pick.  Take Lawrence #1 in 2021 draft, Burrow #33 and make him sit again.

Burrow wouldn't fall out of the first round next year. The Steelers would snap him up if he lasted that long.

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2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

So essentially there's evidence that the first year record isn't indicative whether he's a good coach or not, seeing as HOF coaches started terribly and some bad coaches remained bad. This is why everyone on this subforum has been saying, "Wait and see, not willing to write Zac off yet". You're not giving him a fair shake. 

There are overt reasons why we dropped 4 games compared to last year. This isn't comparing apples to apples considering the drastic, unforeseen changes to our starting roster between the time Marvin left and Zac took over.

There are at least three significant reasons why we finished we a worse record. First, and most notably, our best player was injured for the entire season. I really can't emphasize that enough. AJ Green, the catalyst of the offense and perhaps the team, played 0 snaps all year. Just that in itself is worth two losses compared to 2018. Secondly, our offensive line, which was terrible to end the year in 2018, was ravaged even further by losing our only foundation piece to retirement (Boling), lost our top 10 pick for the year in rookie minicamp (Jonah), lost our starting LT for the first 12 games of the year (Glenn). We were forced to play numerous inept line combinations and developed no cohesiveness, and the offense struggled as a result. Lastly, Zac and the front office decided to accelerate the tank by starting Ryan Finley for three games, two of which could have easily won if Dalton started. It's not difficult to see how our record could drop off when you consider the hand Zac was dealt this year.

 

The HoF coaches you rest your argument on didn't do much worse than their predecessors while rebuilding. Taylor has done considerably worse than Lewis. Feel free to direct us to your post last offseason calling for the team to win 3 or fewer games because we were rebuilding.

 

AJ Green's injury is one of the reasons Taylor should be fired. Having your team practice on a gravel strewn field is ridiculous. Why he didn't make sure the surface at Welcome stadium was swept is beyond me. Green probably could have returned after the bye. IMO he chose not to, as a vote of no confidence in Taylor. Rightly so, considering the circumstances of his injury. You somehow forgot to mention that Tyler Eifert played all year. He usually gets cited for his injuries ruining prior seasons. Our O-line was bad but that was completely predictable when Hart was re-signed. Williams wasn't a top 10 pick and counting on a rookie is unwise. It was bad scouting to not notice he wore a shoulder brace in college and our main scouts are the coaches. I don't blame Taylor for losing the games Finley started but do blame him for wanting Finley so much. It's rather suspicious that Dolegala didn't get on the field for even a snap. He should have been on the practice squad, not the 53. Green should have been IRed before game 1. 

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Taylor has done considerably worse than Lewis.

Not if you consider the circumstances I've outlined.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Feel free to direct us to your post last offseason calling for the team to win 3 or fewer games because we were rebuilding.

Considering I wouldn't know the circumstances of why this team would struggle (AJ Green out for season) before the season began, I wouldn't have been able to predict this.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

AJ Green's injury is one of the reasons Taylor should be fired. Having your team practice on a gravel strewn field is ridiculous.

This is just hilarious.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Green probably could have returned after the bye. IMO he chose not to, as a vote of no confidence in Taylor.

Talking completely out of your rear end. Absolutely no evidence to support this.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

You somehow forgot to mention that Tyler Eifert played all year.

An above average receiving tight end isn't going to move the wins/loss needle much for this offense. Hate to break it to you. 

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Our O-line was bad but that was completely predictable when Hart was re-signed.

Our line got considerably worse compared to last year. There's no debating that. 

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Williams wasn't a top 10 pick and counting on a rookie is unwise.

Top 11, sorry. The top 10-15 prospects are expected to have an immediate impact. That's why they're drafted that high.  Literally every player aside from Daniel Jones started week 1 for their clubs. Are all those coaches unwise to think they can contribute as starters right away? Would then the wise thing be to field a lesser player who happens to be a veteran? We drafted a very good tackle to a terrible OL group and it was unwise to think he could help the team and contribute? Think about how stupid that is.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

It was bad scouting to not notice he wore a shoulder brace in college and our main scouts are the coaches.

The fact you don't seem to know these prospects are medically evaluated nearly the entire pre-draft process tells me all I need to know. They okay'd the shoulder.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Finley started but do blame him for wanting Finley so much.

Wanted him so much he drafted him in the 4th round and traded two measly 6th round picks to do so (we had six 6th round picks heading into day 3 of the draft)? We wanted to develop a back up QB. Turns out he sucks. Oh boy, did he set us back.

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Green should have been IRed before game 1. 

Why is this, and the draft, being pinned on Zac? By all accounts the personnel decisions are group decisions. The front office, medical staff, and coaches all have their hands in the pot. There is no doubt in my mind that upper management makes the big decisions. Our medical staff might be inept, but that's not the fault of Zac Taylor.

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Burrow is a competitor. The Bengals haven't won a playoff game in Burrow's lifetime (plus several years) and have the longest current NFL streak without a playoff victory. The Bengals won't win a playoff game as currently operated because they can't win a playoff game. The team's front office is dysfunctional. As noted the owner, Mike Brown, is old fashioned. His dad Paul Brown was unjustifiably fired as coach of the Browns so Mike is overly loyal to coaches including the current guy. Paul Brown was opposed to free agency for players so Mike operates that way. He'll re-sign Bengals players like Bobby Hart who are out of contract but not bring in good players from other teams. In the past, some good players have used the Bengals to drive up the price for the teams they actually want to play for. Mike Brown seems to think that applies to all the top free agents so he sits on his hands the first week of free agency.

The team is committed to drafting and developing talent, at least in theory. Problem is they aren't very good at it. The last several drafts have been poor. Some players do improve each year but others don't. There's no competitive advantage vs our division rivals. Thus our last place finished the last couple of years. Our best players are over 30 now so the future isn't very bright.

If Burrow could convince the Bengals to trade the pick to another team, he'd almost by definition be in a better situation. Likewise if he sits out a year and goes back in the draft next year and is picked later by a better team.

Or the competitor in him would say he's all in to become the Man who Won it All in Stripes.  A local legend you will be telling stories to your grandkids about (after you forget all your hot takes in the moment)

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2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Not if you consider the circumstances I've outlined.

Considering I wouldn't know the circumstances of why this team would struggle (AJ Green out for season) before the season began, I wouldn't have been able to predict this.

This is just hilarious.

Talking completely out of your rear end. Absolutely no evidence to support this.

An above average receiving tight end isn't going to move the wins/loss needle much for this offense. Hate to break it to you. 

Our line got considerably worse compared to last year. There's no debating that. 

Top 11, sorry. The top 10-15 prospects are expected to have an immediate impact. That's why they're drafted that high.  Literally every player aside from Daniel Jones started week 1 for their clubs. Are all those coaches unwise to think they can contribute as starters right away? Would then the wise thing be to field a lesser player who happens to be a veteran? We drafted a very good tackle to a terrible OL group and it was unwise to think he could help the team and contribute? Think about how stupid that is.

The fact you don't seem to know these prospects are medically evaluated nearly the entire pre-draft process tells me all I need to know. They okay'd the shoulder.

Wanted him so much he drafted him in the 4th round and traded two measly 6th round picks to do so (we had six 6th round picks heading into day 3 of the draft)? We wanted to develop a back up QB. Turns out he sucks. Oh boy, did he set us back.

Why is this, and the draft, being pinned on Zac? By all accounts the personnel decisions are group decisions. The front office, medical staff, and coaches all have their hands in the pot. There is no doubt in my mind that upper management makes the big decisions. Our medical staff might be inept, but that's not the fault of Zac Taylor.

Are you now denying that AJ Green hurt his ankle when he stepped on gravel at Welcome stadium? At the time, players commented on the field. It's really not expecting too much for a coach to have the field swept before an NFL team practices on it for the first time ever. 

There's lots of evidence Green could have returned sooner. Bengals repeatedly estimated his return date months earlier than he said he was ready.

You don't seem to understand the medical process at the combine. They don't pass or fail prospects, the teams do that. In Indy, they just take scans for the teams to use. 

Green should have been IRed because he could be recalled week 9 and by the time the season was starting, they were estimating he'd be ready by the bye week. We could have used the roster spot for someone actually playing. Of course we were already wasting a spot on Dolegala. Only the Bengals would be afraid of other teams scooping up an undrafted free agent.

 

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2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

Or the competitor in him would say he's all in to become the Man who Won it All in Stripes.  A local legend you will be telling stories to your grandkids about (after you forget all your hot takes in the moment)

Sure but Burrow lived in Ohio for years. He knows how the Bengals are run. Winning a Superbowl is hard for teams that are actually trying. It's not in the realm of possibility for teams that aren't really trying. I expect Burrow to be an improvement over Dalton. But he can't fix the 31st ranked defense. 

 

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25 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Sure but Burrow lived in Ohio for years. He knows how the Bengals are run. Winning a Superbowl is hard for teams that are actually trying. It's not in the realm of possibility for teams that aren't really trying. I expect Burrow to be an improvement over Dalton. But he can't fix the 31st ranked defense. 

 

he sure as h3ll can do more for them by having pocket presence that keeps drives alive and the defense watching on the sidelines.  Of course, his deep ball accuracy will put them out there faster on occasion.  But I'll take my chances in those situations.

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Are you now denying that AJ Green hurt his ankle when he stepped on gravel at Welcome stadium? At the time, players commented on the field. It's really not expecting too much for a coach to have the field swept before an NFL team practices on it for the first time ever. 

No, I just find it hilarious you think it’s a fireable offense. We also don’t know forsure if the field was at fault for the injury, regardless of what the players commented on. It wasn’t a non contact injury, it happened after colliding with Kirkpatrick.

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

There's lots of evidence Green could have returned sooner. Bengals repeatedly estimated his return date months earlier than he said he was ready.

Feel free to post it then. 

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

You don't seem to understand the medical process at the combine. They don't pass or fail prospects, the teams do that. In Indy, they just take scans for the teams to use. 

I understand it very well. I never specified the combine. The Bengals medical staff evaluated his shoulder and thought it wasn’t something that needed repairing. It looks like they were wrong, but that has nothing to do with Zac.

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Green should have been IRed because he could be recalled week 9 and by the time the season was starting, they were estimating he'd be ready by the bye week. We could have used the roster spot for someone actually playing.

You’re probably right. But again, I highly doubt Zac makes that executive decision. 

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Of course we were already wasting a spot on Dolegala. Only the Bengals would be afraid of other teams scooping up an undrafted free agent

You’re responses are exhausting to read. The negativity really zaps the life out of you. Literally everything is subject to a complaint. 

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