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Draft Talk 2020


SmittyBacall

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On 1/26/2020 at 5:06 PM, INbengalfan said:

Best players play, regardless of draft status and salary.

They continued to play hard right through the end of the season

Not sure about the best players playing. Willis was in our opening day lineup. 

Bengals have a history of players playing hard the last 2 or 3 games so they don't get cut in the offseason. I wouldn't say we played hard in London. Only twice since 1970 has an NFL team allowed opponents 450 or more yards in 4 consecutive games. The two instances were the Bengals in 2018 and the Bengals in 2019. If that's evidence of playing hard, we're in even more trouble than I think.

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10 hours ago, Carson4MVP said:

Lol. It’s literally the Browns mantra. Look who they got as their Coach and GM. 2 inexperienced guys because no respectable coach or GM would seriously consider Cleveland. 

The Browns problem is they hire bad coaches, not that they turn over their coaching staff too often. It's not like other teams rush to hire the guys the Browns fired. 

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59 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

The Browns problem is they hire bad coaches, not that they turn over their coaching staff too often. It's not like other teams rush to hire the guys the Browns fired. 

They hire bad coaches, but the pool they have to draw from is much smaller than most clubs. The good coaches don't want to coach there because of their constant turnover. And they can't solve that with money. Eventually they have to win. 

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Not sure about the best players playing. Willis was in our opening day lineup. 

Bengals have a history of players playing hard the last 2 or 3 games so they don't get cut in the offseason. I wouldn't say we played hard in London. Only twice since 1970 has an NFL team allowed opponents 450 or more yards in 4 consecutive games. The two instances were the Bengals in 2018 and the Bengals in 2019. If that's evidence of playing hard, we're in even more trouble than I think.

Way to cherry pick.  And honestly, the only guy with an argument to start over him was Erickson, but we know how the team hates exposing their lead returners in the offense.  tate was out.  Green was out.  Who should have stated over him?

 

Every team plays flat in games during the regular season.  it's the nature of the beast playing 16 grueling games in a 17 week schedule.  Is a rookie head coach exempt from that, or just ones your down on?  The Pats played flat on two nationally televised games.  Fire Bill, I tell ya.

 

At this point, you sound like the "get off my lawn"  old guy, just arguing for the sake of arguing, refusing to not go down with the ship

Edited by INbengalfan
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13 hours ago, theJ said:

They hire bad coaches, but the pool they have to draw from is much smaller than most clubs. The good coaches don't want to coach there because of their constant turnover. And they can't solve that with money. Eventually they have to win. 

Not only that. The only GM candidate with any GM or AGM experience took himself out of the running. They were left picking between a few guys with 0 experience. When you fire your coach or GM every 1-2 years it significantly limits the candidates. Coaches? McCarthy, McDaniels, Bowles and I’m sure I am missing others all turned them down. Mike Brown is a terrible owner. But one thing you can take to the bank, he is a loyal owner who gives his coaches a chance to build a winner and get their guys in before making any rash decisions on them. Part of that could be cheap and not wanting to pay multiple guys. But it still brings a level of stability most teams don’t have in the NFL. 

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1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

The more I learn about Kobe's legacy, the less I think this team will ever win a championship. We don't want it bad enough.

They'll luck into one, maybe even two eventually.  The right combination of players and coaches can easily overcome front office deficiencies.  Philosophies change over time too, based on experiences.  Look at the Packers.  The Bengals modeled after them for a long time, and now the Packers are very active in FA.  Their philosophy changed because of some good FA experiences, so they expanded on it.  The same could happen to the Bengals if they just landed one good FA, instead of missing on guys like Terrell Owens, Laverneous Coles or Antonio Bryant.

They are the way they are because of those misses, and because they had some good success with guys like Dhani Jones, Terrence Newman and Adam Jones.  They were all tier 2 or 3 guys in FA, and contributed quite a bit.  So the Bengals current philosophy is that all tier 1 guys are not worth the money, and the deals are to be found in the tier 2 or 3 guys.  Yeah, it's wrong, but the model is based on their experience.

It only takes one signing to change that experience, and therefore the philosophy.

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13 minutes ago, theJ said:

They are the way they are because of those misses, and because they had some good success with guys like Dhani Jones, Terrence Newman and Adam Jones.  They were all tier 2 or 3 guys in FA, and contributed quite a bit.  So the Bengals current philosophy is that all tier 1 guys are not worth the money, and the deals are to be found in the tier 2 or 3 guys.  Yeah, it's wrong, but the model is based on their experience.

Which is fine, but if their philosophy is to build through the draft and fill out the roster with 2nd/3rd tier free agents, then adjust the front office accordingly. Pour more resources into scouting (both college and pro), hire some legitimate player personnel executives - not your offspring. We all know what Troy Blackburn said publicly about Bobby Hart and Trent Brown last year. If that's any indication of the type of executive he is, I'd say it's unreasonable to rely on his opinion to bring in those low-tier FAs.

It's a reasonable enough take that they are the way they are because of past mistakes, but it's also a pretty convenient excuse for a franchise that has a history of being relatively cheap. I mean, we still don't have a full-length indoor practice facility. 

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40 minutes ago, theJ said:

They'll luck into one, maybe even two eventually.  The right combination of players and coaches can easily overcome front office deficiencies.

"Will ever" was probably a poor choice of words. If the world and the franchise is still around in the next 100 years, I can see us sneaking in a Lombardi somewhere out of sheer luck/probability. That comment was more so addressing our franchise philosophy, which is tied to the Brown family. They don't want it as bad as the other teams. The probability of them lucking out and winning one while they're still at the helm is extremely low.

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Quote

Former Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer, the first pick in the 2003 NFL Draft, didn’t have kind things to say about the franchise during an interview with CBS Sports Radio.

“That’s why I wanted out: I never felt like the [Bengals’] organization was really trying to win a Super Bowl, and really chasing the Super Bowl,” Palmer said. “Because that’s what today’s day and age is. The game today is you can’t just hope you draft well and not go after free agents and you just end up in the Super Bowl. You gotta go get it.

“And I then went and played for Michael Bidwill in Arizona, and Michael was all about winning. Everything was about winning. The culture was about winning. And we — very fortunately — the year before I got to Arizona, I think they won a couple games, or three or four games. And Michael Bidwill dug his feet in the ground, and I saw an owner say we’re gonna go after this. And we’re gonna do what it takes to win. And at the end of the day when owners do what it takes to win and have that type of mentality – and everybody’s on board — you know I saw it right before my eyes. Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins — whatever it was, those next three years.

“And when the organization is completely behind doing what it takes to win, and you’ve got the right players, then that’s the recipe for a Super Bowl. When you’ve got good players but you’re not really forcing everybody in the organization’s hand to do what we can to be better, to do what we can to win a Super Bowl, that’s the difference in the NFL. You look at what Bob Kraft’s done. You look at the teams that have had success year in and year out. You look at what goes on in Baltimore. I mean, that team is always good. That team is doing whatever it takes. They are willing to do whatever it takes to win. And that’s why they’re consistently in the playoffs, regardless of who their quarterback is.”

Can't say I disagree with him. 

Edited by SmittyBacall
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I liked Palmer when he played but he’s just mad because after he left the Bengals started winning again. It’s fine that he spoke his mind but leave it at that. You don’t need to be influencing the mind of a young kid about to be taken number 1 overall and already giving him a preset expectation of things. Let him figure that out. Carson you aren’t in the building anymore, maybe things are different now. Let him shape his own opinions. 

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The Bengals have continued to refrain from signing impact free agents. They are probably even more timid with Dalton at QB than when Palmer was here. The FO has drafted poorly with Ogbuehi, etc. So things haven't fundamentally changed from when Palmer was here. 

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

The Bengals have continued to refrain from signing impact free agents. They are probably even more timid with Dalton at QB than when Palmer was here. The FO has drafted poorly with Ogbuehi, etc. So things haven't fundamentally changed from when Palmer was here. 

Ok, but Carson should still shut his mouth.

It's like those damn parents who insist on giving advice to new parents.  Just let them figure it out.  It's not helping.

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