Draft Talk 2020

[Spartica4Real]

You guys treat my boy Jeauxseph Burreaux good

Definitely don't think you'll be making a mistake taking him #1

[INbengalfan]

11 hours ago, theJ said:

So I guess it's Joe burrow or bust now

If they are willing to consider trading back, the asking price just skyrocketed

[SmittyBacall]

58 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

If they are willing to consider trading back, the asking price just skyrocketed

Even if we did acquire a boat load of draft capitol, I don't trust this team to draft well with it.

Give me Joe.

[INbengalfan]

46 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Even if we did acquire a boat load of draft capitol, I don't trust this team to draft well with it.

Give me Joe.

There are still plenty of moving pieces between now and the draft.  But it really gets down to deciding if Burrow is THE guy, not just a really good guy. Taking a QB because you need one and have a high pick doesn’t guarantee a successful match. Akili Smith anyone?

It starts with what do they do in free agency. If they stay true to who they are, that isn’t helping. If they change their philosophy drastically, then that changes things.

If you believe that Burrow is a generational guy, pull the trigger. If you see him as a fifth year senior with a meteoric rise due to one great season with an excellent supporting cast, tread lightly. Because with the Tua injury, the price for the #1 pick just went up. way up.

If I were GM, I’m trading back, because I don’t think Burrow is a generational guy. But I can use that #1 pick to turn this franchise around more quickly by getting a haul back in return for it.

If we trade back a few spots, we still get Thomas, and an OT is the number one need on this team. Pair him with Jonah for a decade, use the additional picks acquired to get a starting LB. If you get 2 picks in this draft, used both on LBs. I have always said that I would want a 2021 first in the deal (and probably a second this year) so that we can trade up for Fields/Lawrence and now maybe Tua in the next draft. Then use our own second rounder on another positional need.

If the Dolphins really want Burrow, I’d get another first this year and their second this year.
What is more impactful for the team… Getting Burrow, or using the picks to take multiple players like Thomas (OT), Simmons (LB), Murray (LB) and Kindley (LG). I’m taking the latter all day, every day.

This team is horrible, and even those picks wont make us contenders, as we are two drafts away. Get the QB in 2021.

Now if they decided to trade off veterans, then I’d have to think about QB now, because I’d offer Green for two seconds and dalton for a 2 or a 3. Maybe flip Dunlap for a 3rd as well. With that many assets, we could really rebuild in a hurry, and then a top QB in 2021 might not be as realistic.

[SmittyBacall]

9 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

There are still plenty of moving pieces between now and the draft.  But it really gets down to deciding if Burrow is THE guy, not just a really good guy. Taking a QB because you need one and have a high pick doesn’t guarantee a successful match. Akili Smith anyone?

It starts with what do they do in free agency. If they stay true to who they are, that isn’t helping. If they change their philosophy drastically, then that changes things.

If you believe that Burrow is a generational guy, pull the trigger. If you see him as a fifth year senior with a meteoric rise due to one great season with an excellent supporting cast, tread lightly. Because with the Tua injury, the price for the #1 pick just went up. way up.

If I were GM, I’m trading back, because I don’t think Burrow is a generational guy. But I can use that #1 pick to turn this franchise around more quickly by getting a haul back in return for it.

If we trade back a few spots, we still get Thomas, and an OT is the number one need on this team. Pair him with Jonah for a decade, use the additional picks acquired to get a starting LB. If you get 2 picks in this draft, used both on LBs. I have always said that I would want a 2021 first in the deal (and probably a second this year) so that we can trade up for Fields/Lawrence and now maybe Tua in the next draft. Then use our own second rounder on another positional need.

If the Dolphins really want Burrow, I’d get another first this year and their second this year.
What is more impactful for the team… Getting Burrow, or using the picks to take multiple players like Thomas (OT), Simmons (LB), Murray (LB) and Kindley (LG). I’m taking the latter all day, every day.

This team is horrible, and even those picks wont make us contenders, as we are two drafts away. Get the QB in 2021.

Now if they decided to trade off veterans, then I’d have to think about QB now, because I’d offer Green for two seconds and dalton for a 2 or a 3. Maybe flip Dunlap for a 3rd as well. With that many assets, we could really rebuild in a hurry, and then a top QB in 2021 might not be as realistic.

I haven't taken a deep dive into evaluating Burrow yet, but from what I've seen the guy is legit. I'm not passing on that no matter the haul. 

Would the Texans trade Deshaun Watson for Miami's 1st in 2020, a 1st in 2021 and a 2nd this year? No. The value of a QB trumps the most outrageous hauls. Obviously Watson is the sure thing and Burrow is the unknown, but if you feel that strongly about Burrow the sentiment is the same. Take the QB. Next year if we win 4 games we'll be picking in the top 6 again and have the same opportunity to trade down to acquire more picks for the rebuild if we want to. If you're waiting around every year without taking a QB only to draft the "generational" talent, you're going to get burned. You may never get that chance.

[SmittyBacall]

20 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

What is more impactful for the team… Getting Burrow, or using the picks to take multiple players like Thomas (OT), Simmons (LB), Murray (LB) and Kindley (LG).

Getting Burrow 100%. The pick can change the franchise overnight. 

[theJ]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

There are still plenty of moving pieces between now and the draft.  But it really gets down to deciding if Burrow is THE guy, not just a really good guy. Taking a QB because you need one and have a high pick doesn’t guarantee a successful match. Akili Smith anyone?

It starts with what do they do in free agency. If they stay true to who they are, that isn’t helping. If they change their philosophy drastically, then that changes things.

If you believe that Burrow is a generational guy, pull the trigger. If you see him as a fifth year senior with a meteoric rise due to one great season with an excellent supporting cast, tread lightly. Because with the Tua injury, the price for the #1 pick just went up. way up.

If I were GM, I’m trading back, because I don’t think Burrow is a generational guy. But I can use that #1 pick to turn this franchise around more quickly by getting a haul back in return for it.

If we trade back a few spots, we still get Thomas, and an OT is the number one need on this team. Pair him with Jonah for a decade, use the additional picks acquired to get a starting LB. If you get 2 picks in this draft, used both on LBs. I have always said that I would want a 2021 first in the deal (and probably a second this year) so that we can trade up for Fields/Lawrence and now maybe Tua in the next draft. Then use our own second rounder on another positional need.

If the Dolphins really want Burrow, I’d get another first this year and their second this year.
What is more impactful for the team… Getting Burrow, or using the picks to take multiple players like Thomas (OT), Simmons (LB), Murray (LB) and Kindley (LG). I’m taking the latter all day, every day.

This team is horrible, and even those picks wont make us contenders, as we are two drafts away. Get the QB in 2021.

Now if they decided to trade off veterans, then I’d have to think about QB now, because I’d offer Green for two seconds and dalton for a 2 or a 3. Maybe flip Dunlap for a 3rd as well. With that many assets, we could really rebuild in a hurry, and then a top QB in 2021 might not be as realistic.

The answer is the QB still has more impact. 

Also, disagree that OT is the top need on the team. Dalton is gone. Finley is not good. QB is the top need. 

[sparky151]

We'd better bring in Joe Brady if we sign Burrow. But Mike Brown will probably take Herbert anyway. 

 

His last QB from Oregon was a stud, another team even offered multiple first round and other picks for him. 

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, theJ said:

The answer is the QB still has more impact. 

Also, disagree that OT is the top need on the team. Dalton is gone. Finley is not good. QB is the top need. 

Finley has played exactly one game against one of the better defenses in the NFL.  I don't think he's our next big QB, but it's early to call him anything except a fourth round pick.  Manning was awful in his first season.  So was Aikman.  Not saying Finley will even sniff that level of play for even a game, but if first impressions were the only thing, then where would 80% of pro players be?

 

 

[INbengalfan]

3 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I haven't taken a deep dive into evaluating Burrow yet, but from what I've seen the guy is legit. I'm not passing on that no matter the haul. 

Would the Texans trade Deshaun Watson for Miami's 1st in 2020, a 1st in 2021 and a 2nd this year? No. The value of a QB trumps the most outrageous hauls. Obviously Watson is the sure thing and Burrow is the unknown, but if you feel that strongly about Burrow the sentiment is the same. Take the QB. Next year if we win 4 games we'll be picking in the top 6 again and have the same opportunity to trade down to acquire more picks for the rebuild if we want to. If you're waiting around every year without taking a QB only to draft the "generational" talent, you're going to get burned. You may never get that chance.

Generational was probably too strong, but elite isn't.  

 

I've laid out a plan past just the number one pick.  How would you fix this team, because any time I try to lay out a plan more than just 1 move,  all I get is why I'm wrong.  No other alternative plan.  No discussion.  Sorry if we don't agree, but I always preface it with what I would do, not what the team should or will do.  All I get is why I'm wrong, and frankly, it's old.  

 

Since you haven't taken the time to dive in, I'll tell lou what I see.  I see a very good thrower who is surrounded by elite talent around him on a very loaded SEC team.  But until he was put in Brady's system, he was just a guy.  He couldn't beat out Haskins, Cardale or Barrett in Columbus.  he was mediocre last year.  At the start of this season, he was seen as a third or fourth rounder.  He has made a few great throws into tight windows, but often he throws to wide open receivers (due to teams playing well behind them for fear of getting beat) or throws balls high where only Jefferson and the other tall WR can get it.  He's better than a guy like Eason, who took a similar path from Georgia to Washington.  But if Eason was playing at LSU instead, I think he puts up very similar numbers.  he won't have the talent advantage here, plus a porous offensive line.  That's a recipe for a lot of early failure.

[SmittyBacall]

13 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Finley has played exactly one game against one of the better defenses in the NFL.  I don't think he's our next big QB, but it's early to call him anything except a fourth round pick.  Manning was awful in his first season.  So was Aikman.  Not saying Finley will even sniff that level of play for even a game, but if first impressions were the only thing, then where would 80% of pro players be?

 

 

Aikman and Manning were first overall picks. It’s not even close to reasonable comparison. Finley went in the 4th round for a reason. His chances of being anything are slim. 

[SmittyBacall]

2 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

I've laid out a plan past just the number one pick.  How would you fix this team, because any time I try to lay out a plan more than just 1 move,  all I get is why I'm wrong.  No other alternative plan.  No discussion.  Sorry if we don't agree, but I always preface it with what I would do, not what the team should or will do.  All I get is why I'm wrong, and frankly, it's old.  

I told you my plan. Stay the course and take Burrow.

 

 

[INbengalfan]

16 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I told you my plan. Stay the course and take Burrow.

 

 

And that changes the franchise?  Right.

[SmittyBacall]

3 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

And that changes the franchise?  Right.

I believe it gives us the best chance yes. It worked out for a lot of other teams in recent history. Have a look yourself. 

Also, I never said your plan was wrong. Just that I disagree. No need to feel attacked.

[theJ]

9 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

And that changes the franchise?  Right.

There are only two things that will change this franchise: pick a transcendent QB, or the Browns sell the team. 

42 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Finley has played exactly one game against one of the better defenses in the NFL.  I don't think he's our next big QB, but it's early to call him anything except a fourth round pick.  Manning was awful in his first season.  So was Aikman.  Not saying Finley will even sniff that level of play for even a game, but if first impressions were the only thing, then where would 80% of pro players be?

I agree with that, but he was a fourth round pick for a reason, and he played bad in one game. If they finish with the top pick, he'll have played bad in every game and QB will be priority number one. 

A great one can deal with a bad RT. A great RT can't save a bad QB, or any of the other pieces you mentioned. But at the same time, you can't guarantee they'll be in position to take a QB next year. When you need one, and the guy is available, you have to take him.