Your 2019 MVP: Russell Wilson

[diamondbull424]

59 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I guess “most” is the key word...

 

I don’t think this is necessarily a hot take. What the Ravens have done averaging over 200 rushing yards (well technically it’s now like 199.3 because of RG3’s buffoonery), hasn’t been done since the Walter Payton Bears. And the single team rushing record they are currently right on pace to match/surpass.

So while its still a little too early to make proclamations because there’s a lot of good defenses and football teams left to play, the rushing attack is indeed on pace to be at worst a top 3 rushing attack of all time and could quite easily end up as the greatest attack the NFL has ever seen.

Which is ultimately a big reason for why Lamar belongs in this conversation. He’s making the defensive reads and motioning our blockers across the formation to put our rushing attack in optimal numbers position against the defense and then on top of that he’s making the correct “play in progress” reads to determine whether to run or hand the ball off.

That said, what three rushing attacks would you currently have as the most lethal in NFL history and what reasons do you have for those teams being placed there (legit curious).

[patriotsheatyan]

Mahomes has a passer rating .8 behind Wilson and is only 100 yards behind Wilson when Mahomes has played 7.5 games to Wilson’s 10.

Why are people discounting him? His per game numbers are that much better than anyone else to the point he is still on pace to pretty easily have the best overall combination of efficiency and volume stats. 

[evilpimp972]

6 minutes ago, patriotsheatyan said:

Mahomes has a passer rating .8 behind Wilson and is only 100 yards behind Wilson when Mahomes has played 7.5 games to Wilson’s 10.

Why are people discounting him? His per game numbers are that much better than anyone else to the point he is still on pace to pretty easily have the best overall combination of efficiency and volume stats. 

Record do matter dude.

Also Wentz missed 2 games in 2017 and lost the mvp

[Split the Sticks]

Wilson is an amazing magician back there. love watching him. he brings some of the college game 

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, Split the Sticks said:

Wilson is an amazing magician back there. love watching him. he brings some of the college game 

I don't know if it's his football IQ, or instincts hard to separate the two guy is 

"The Natural " or that's my nickname for him lol.

I'll never not wanna kick Elway in the testes for picking Brock Osweiler over him. And I didn't even mind the Brock pick on the surface idea was totally sound. It's just you passed on the freaking Natural. 

 

His QBR is 81.4 you can't get much more efficient managing a football game than that.

Edited November 12, 2019 by thebestever6

[RavensDefense3]

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I guess “most” is the key word...

 

Do you know what a hot take is? Ravens would be on pace to break the record for most rush yards in a season if not for refball on a 60 yard run in the chiefs game. Like we said earlier if lamars first 15 games were a season the record is already broken.

[M.10.E]

The race is #wideopen with 7 games to go. Let the games begin.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 hours ago, Tex said:

I think it's clearly a two man race. I say that as a Texans fan. It's Wilson and Lamar. Then everyone else. Lamar gets to play the same Niners team except at home. Wilson gets another shot at the Niners in Seattle. I think it'll be a close race -- Wilson did start out well but I think Lamar can definitely even this out and maybe even has.

cc: @BayRaider

[animaltested]

So just saying, but in the late game, high leverage situations, the Seahawks receivers were Jacob Hollister, David Moore, Malik Turner, and DK Metcalf = Three Potential game winning drives.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

34 minutes ago, animaltested said:

So just saying, but in the late game, high leverage situations, the Seahawks receivers were Jacob Hollister, David Moore, Malik Turner, and DK Metcalf = Three Potential game winning drives.

Josh Gordon was also out there, no? Not that it's really a plus at this point considering no other team in the league wanted him.

[Forge]

9 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I’m sure someone will take this comment wrong - because I’m not saying Wilson isn’t a strong MVP candidate - but this game vs SF was a positive for him in this race? 49ers have a great defense but Russ didn’t really show out like Lamar did vs NE. Even threw a game losing interception. Shrug, he played well enough to win (which is important) but with a flashy award like MVP, I don’t really see this game pushing Wilson over the edge with star power.

I don't think this game was a negative for Wilson. I don't know that it was a positive, if you know what I mean. The 49ers defense is legit, and quarterbacks struggle against them. Wilson struggled, but kept his head above water. 

I think the game against NE for Jackson bolstered his case and closed the gap. So basically, his play gave him a shot in the arm up the rankings, while Wilson's play, though not sexy, basically keeps him treading water at where he was at. 

 

[Soko]

8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

 I don’t think this is necessarily a hot take. What the Ravens have done averaging over 200 rushing yards (well technically it’s now like 199.3 because of RG3’s buffoonery), hasn’t been done since the Walter Payton Bears. And the single team rushing record they are currently right on pace to match/surpass.

So while its still a little too early to make proclamations because there’s a lot of good defenses and football teams left to play, the rushing attack is indeed on pace to be at worst a top 3 rushing attack of all time and could quite easily end up as the greatest attack the NFL has ever seen.

 

4 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said:

Do you know what a hot take is? Ravens would be on pace to break the record for most rush yards in a season if not for refball on a 60 yard run in the chiefs game. Like we said earlier if lamars first 15 games were a season the record is already broken.

Sigh, alright. I think the Ravens are having an awesome season and I’m a big Lamar fan (because I know you guys like to lump any criticism of the guy into one loud voice), but this is crazy talk. Let’s consider these points.

1. Most yards =/= best or greatest. Would you call Stafford’s 2011 season greater than Rodgers’ 2011 season? The former threw for more yards, after all. That standard has pretty much never applied. 

2. If we’re going to discuss pace, then let’s not forget that this isn’t the greatest “pace” or even close to it. I’m sure an incoming, convenient parameter is going to be “SB era only” but that still keeps this “pace” outside even the top 5. Even if yards were the end-all, the Ravens totals will fall will they will all-time because the NFL used to play less games. Adjusted yards, they’re on pace for just inside the top 20.

3. To even be a high totaling rushing offense in today’s NFL, it pigeonholes most teams. A Tom Brady offense is never going to be in this discussion. Neither is a Patrick Mahomes team. It’s why the 2006 Falcons team was able to rush for more yards than any team with Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, or LaDanian Tomlinson. Adding another rusher into the mix is going to help an offense’s totals (see: 2011 Broncos). But an athletic QB scrambling after a broken down pass play is not the same as a handoff. Throwing in that type of element and saying it’s all apples-to-apples isn’t the case IMO. You’d have to be comfortable calling the 2006 Falcons a greater rushing team than virtually any team outside a handful of teams from the 70s. 

It’s the equivalent to calling an offense that passes for a ton of yards, ends up top 10 all time, but nearly 40%-45% of the yards come from screen passes. Yeah, they’re yards, but not created equal unless we’re just going to box scout and only count numbers. 

[Soko]

43 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't think this game was a negative for Wilson. I don't know that it was a positive, if you know what I mean. The 49ers defense is legit, and quarterbacks struggle against them. Wilson struggled, but kept his head above water. 

I think the game against NE for Jackson bolstered his case and closed the gap. So basically, his play gave him a shot in the arm up the rankings, while Wilson's play, though not sexy, basically keeps him treading water at where he was at. 

 

How I feel as well. Was curious because I thought I saw people using this game in the Russ for MVP talks. 

[diamondbull424]

37 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

 

Sigh, alright. I think the Ravens are having an awesome season and I’m a big Lamar fan (because I know you guys like to lump any criticism of the guy into one loud voice), but this is crazy talk. Let’s consider these points.

1. Most yards =/= best or greatest. Would you call Stafford’s 2011 season greater than Rodgers’ 2011 season? The former threw for more yards, after all. That standard has pretty much never applied. 

2. If we’re going to discuss pace, then let’s not forget that this isn’t the greatest “pace” or even close to it. I’m sure an incoming, convenient parameter is going to be “SB era only” but that still keeps this “pace” outside even the top 5. Even if yards were the end-all, the Ravens totals will fall will they will all-time because the NFL used to play less games. Adjusted yards, they’re on pace for just inside the top 20.

3. To even be a high totaling rushing offense in today’s NFL, it pigeonholes most teams. A Tom Brady offense is never going to be in this discussion. Neither is a Patrick Mahomes team. It’s why the 2006 Falcons team was able to rush for more yards than any team with Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, or LaDanian Tomlinson. Adding another rusher into the mix is going to help an offense’s totals (see: 2011 Broncos). But an athletic QB scrambling after a broken down pass play is not the same as a handoff. Throwing in that type of element and saying it’s all apples-to-apples isn’t the case IMO. You’d have to be comfortable calling the 2006 Falcons a greater rushing team than virtually any team outside a handful of teams from the 70s. 

It’s the equivalent to calling an offense that passes for a ton of yards, ends up top 10 all time, but nearly 40%-45% of the yards come from screen passes. Yeah, they’re yards, but not created equal unless we’re just going to box scout and only count numbers. 

You didn’t answer my question as to which three in history you would consider the top 3 rushing attacks.

Also a QB that can run adds to the attack, you’re seemingly taking that away. A rushing attack is a rushing attack.

But like I said I’m very curious as to what are YOUR top rushing attacks and why you have them there.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

33 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Sigh, alright. I think the Ravens are having an awesome season and I’m a big Lamar fan (because I know you guys like to lump any criticism of the guy into one loud voice), but this is crazy talk. Let’s consider these points.

1. Most yards =/= best or greatest. Would you call Stafford’s 2011 season greater than Rodgers’ 2011 season? The former threw for more yards, after all. That standard has pretty much never applied. 

I think this begs the question, which team in NFL history did have the most dominant rushing season ever, and what would Baltimore need to do to beat that?

In terms of yards, you'd have to go back to the 70's where the 78 Patriots had 3,165 total rushing yards as a team. Next highest is the 73 Bills with 3,088 and then the 78 Chiefs with 2,986. New England set their record with 671 total attempts, for a YPC of 4.71. However, do people think of the '78 Patriots as the most dominant rushing team of all time? I have no idea.

Right now, Baltimore has 1775 rushing yards on 322 attempts for a 5.5 YPC. If you extrapolate that to an entire season (16/9 is 1.7777) so 1775 * 1.77777778 = 3,156 yards (2nd all time). 322 attempts * 1.777777778 = 572 attempts (100 less than New England!), and our YPC would then be 5.5 still (which would finish as 4th all time).

Would that classify as the most dominant rushing season of all time? I don't know, but it IS historic.

33 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

2. If we’re going to discuss pace, then let’s not forget that this isn’t the greatest “pace” or even close to it. I’m sure an incoming, convenient parameter is going to be “SB era only” but that still keeps this “pace” outside even the top 5. Even if yards were the end-all, the Ravens totals will fall will they will all-time because the NFL used to play less games. Adjusted yards, they’re on pace for just inside the top 20.

The NFL teams back in those days also used to run a lot more than teams today do, so their yardage totals would be a little skewed, no?

33 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

3. To even be a high totaling rushing offense in today’s NFL, it pigeonholes most teams. A Tom Brady offense is never going to be in this discussion. Neither is a Patrick Mahomes team. It’s why the 2006 Falcons team was able to rush for more yards than any team with Barry Sanders, Adrian Peterson, or LaDanian Tomlinson. Adding another rusher into the mix is going to help an offense’s totals (see: 2011 Broncos). But an athletic QB scrambling after a broken down pass play is not the same as a handoff. Throwing in that type of element and saying it’s all apples-to-apples isn’t the case IMO. You’d have to be comfortable calling the 2006 Falcons a greater rushing team than virtually any team outside a handful of teams from the 70s. 

It’s the equivalent to calling an offense that passes for a ton of yards, ends up top 10 all time, but nearly 40%-45% of the yards come from screen passes. Yeah, they’re yards, but not created equal unless we’re just going to box scout and only count numbers. 

And I think this is why it comes back to Lamar being so special. He's on pace to do something no QB has ever done. Not Vick. Not Cunningham. Not Kaepernick. Nobody. 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards is insane.