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WR set next year

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2 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

He was an early 2nd rd pick but now he is likely putting himself in the late 1st round. The thing is each year you have a waive of WR on whether they go early or not. Lamb Jeudy ruggs Laviska Higgins and Jefferson all can be argued as a 1st rd pick. Everyone though Brown Metcalf should all be 1st round picks and as high as 9 to the bills and look where they ended up in the draft. I am all for drafting a wr if the bills land a top pass rusher in free agency and one is available when they are on the clock but please do not trade up for one. I still would like to add a big veteran but we will see. 

The thing with Metcalf is he was only considered a possible top 15 player because it was a poor WR draft class and he had size and athleticism... Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Shenault, and Higgins are are guranteed first round selections. And then there is guys like Jefferson, Reagor, Gandy-Golden and even Smith that are borderline. If Jefferson was in last years draft class he would have been the first WR taken off the board easily

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A DE who can get consistent pressure on the QB, an OLB, a C/G (or maybe a T depending on where they really want to see Ford playing), and 2 WR's need to be targeted this draft. There are a lot of quality WR's coming out this year and we need to go after more than one to really pressure defenses, allow for the aging of our current starters, and to account for the fact that WR's develop slowly and/or can be easy to mis-evaluate...Zay Jones, anybody? I'd also look for CB depth and keep an eye out for a K. FA can target some of those needs ahead of time, but I would still want to see us go after 2 WR's due to the strength of the draft and how it would keep our Cap in check for years if we could hit on one or more of them.

Wow, it actually feels nice to be able to come up with a pre-draft list without feeling like we'd have to postpone several other serious needs for another year! I don't recall ever feeling that way since I started hanging out at this site!

Edited by Yibbyl

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2 hours ago, Yibbyl said:

A DE who can get consistent pressure on the QB, an OLB, a C/G (or maybe a T depending on where they really want to see Ford playing), and 2 WR's need to be targeted this draft. There are a lot of quality WR's coming out this year and we need to go after more than one to really pressure defenses, allow for the aging of our current starters, and to account for the fact that WR's develop slowly and/or can be easy to mis-evaluate...Zay Jones, anybody? I'd also look for CB depth and keep an eye out for a K. FA can target some of those needs ahead of time, but I would still want to see us go after 2 WR's due to the strength of the draft and how it would keep our Cap in check for years if we could hit on one or more of them.

Wow, it actually feels nice to be able to come up with a pre-draft list without feeling like we'd have to postpone several other serious needs for another year! I don't recall ever feeling that way since I started hanging out at this site!

The bold I have to question because Morse is solid and so has been Spain and Feliciano. The last few weeks Ford has been coming in to his own so to have that be a top target is weird to me. Even when Morse went down in the Pats game and earlier on in the year Feliciano stepped in at center and spencer long stepped in at RG without any miscues. I think resigning spain is key but the oline seems to be fairing well for this team and need more time to gel as 4 of the 5 are brand new. Not to mention Ty being a guy who can start without a question at RT. Depth is there too. 

My top 6 this offseason would be this as I agree to most of what your saying.

1. Pass Rusher....Im sorry but Murphy has to go him getting 10 mil next year is laughable, maybe put that to shaq as he has been coming in to his own but they need a legit pass rusher. Paying Yannick or Clowney, also if Phillips is resigned moving Oliver outside to play LDE could be an option in specific packages. Hughes is a shell of himself and could be the rotational guy for 2020 and then let him go in 2021.
2. WR....Need a big framed wr that can be the big guy for them ideally landing a guy like Aj Green and then drafting Laviska, Higgins, or Jefferson in the 1st round would add to the corps with Beasley, brown, roberts and either Foster or Mckenzie.
3. DT.....the run defense has been an issue I like oliver, phillips, and liuget  but really have a problem with Star and paying him 10+ mil next year isnt something I want. Resign Phillips and draft or bring in another run stuffing DT.
4. OLB...Need to fill the hole Alexander will leave
5. CB....Wallace is an ERFA and Kevin Johnson if resigned makes this a lower priority, but adding depth in the later round would be great.
6. TE....if CBs are resigned this should be 5. Honestly Lee Smith is garbage he has to many penalties and has seen less and less snaps this year. Kroft outside that 1 td he has been a waste of space. Knox will be their guy but honestly bringing in a veteran who can take the reigns and can be a safety net where he doesnt drop balls then this needs to happen. Cut Smith and kroft can free up space to pay one. 
 

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2 hours ago, marshawn lynch said:

The thing with Metcalf is he was only considered a possible top 15 player because it was a poor WR draft class and he had size and athleticism... Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Shenault, and Higgins are are guranteed first round selections. And then there is guys like Jefferson, Reagor, Gandy-Golden and even Smith that are borderline. If Jefferson was in last years draft class he would have been the first WR taken off the board easily

Yea I understand but the media pumping it up of him being a top 15 prospect can be the said by some of these guys. I think Lamb and Jeudy are legit top 10 picks if teams go that route but honestly if your not a wr coach you cant say that they will be 1st rd selections for sure. I think based on what I have seen the guys you mentioned I can see going in the first including Jefferson , the other 3 I would be shocked as that would mean 7 to 9 go in the first rd. If pass rusher is signed in FA then wr should be the pick in the 1st rd.

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4 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

The bold I have to question because Morse is solid and so has been Spain and Feliciano. The last few weeks Ford has been coming in to his own so to have that be a top target is weird to me. Even when Morse went down in the Pats game and earlier on in the year Feliciano stepped in at center and spencer long stepped in at RG without any miscues. I think resigning spain is key but the oline seems to be fairing well for this team and need more time to gel as 4 of the 5 are brand new. Not to mention Ty being a guy who can start without a question at RT. Depth is there too. 

My top 6 this offseason would be this as I agree to most of what your saying.

1. Pass Rusher....Im sorry but Murphy has to go him getting 10 mil next year is laughable, maybe put that to shaq as he has been coming in to his own but they need a legit pass rusher. Paying Yannick or Clowney, also if Phillips is resigned moving Oliver outside to play LDE could be an option in specific packages. Hughes is a shell of himself and could be the rotational guy for 2020 and then let him go in 2021.
2. WR....Need a big framed wr that can be the big guy for them ideally landing a guy like Aj Green and then drafting Laviska, Higgins, or Jefferson in the 1st round would add to the corps with Beasley, brown, roberts and either Foster or Mckenzie.
3. DT.....the run defense has been an issue I like oliver, phillips, and liuget  but really have a problem with Star and paying him 10+ mil next year isnt something I want. Resign Phillips and draft or bring in another run stuffing DT.
4. OLB...Need to fill the hole Alexander will leave
5. CB....Wallace is an ERFA and Kevin Johnson if resigned makes this a lower priority, but adding depth in the later round would be great.
6. TE....if CBs are resigned this should be 5. Honestly Lee Smith is garbage he has to many penalties and has seen less and less snaps this year. Kroft outside that 1 td he has been a waste of space. Knox will be their guy but honestly bringing in a veteran who can take the reigns and can be a safety net where he doesnt drop balls then this needs to happen. Cut Smith and kroft can free up space to pay one. 
 

Mostly see eye to eye with you. Murphy was a safe signing, but really is not a real factor on our D. I wanted Hughes addressed this [ast off-season. He's just not the player he once was. Our D is the strength pf our team and has become our identity. We must address DE to maintain that. Morse has concussion issues we are constantly having to worry about. I think Ford does play well and suspect he stays at RT, but who knows if the coaches think this. Our interior OL is not all that great. They have been routinely exposed against good DL's...NE & Ravens recently. The Ravens especially owned us. "Good enough" is no longer good enough and there is no way after a full season together that you are going to convince me that they just need more time to "gel". That was valid in the 1st 3rd of the season, but not now. Star does need to go...he's a total waste. Think DT depth can be had anywhere...the other 3 are fine. Knox and Sweeney are solid for me at TE. Agree Smith needs to go and Kroft is just "meh".

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58 minutes ago, Yibbyl said:

Mostly see eye to eye with you. Murphy was a safe signing, but really is not a real factor on our D. I wanted Hughes addressed this [ast off-season. He's just not the player he once was. Our D is the strength pf our team and has become our identity. We must address DE to maintain that. Morse has concussion issues we are constantly having to worry about. I think Ford does play well and suspect he stays at RT, but who knows if the coaches think this. Our interior OL is not all that great. They have been routinely exposed against good DL's...NE & Ravens recently. The Ravens especially owned us. "Good enough" is no longer good enough and there is no way after a full season together that you are going to convince me that they just need more time to "gel". That was valid in the 1st 3rd of the season, but not now. Star does need to go...he's a total waste. Think DT depth can be had anywhere...the other 3 are fine. Knox and Sweeney are solid for me at TE. Agree Smith needs to go and Kroft is just "meh".

Feliciano has stepped in at Center when Morse went down but the concussion thing is no longer there to say this should be a player to draft because he may get a concussion down the road that can be said at any position. Injuries happen but you shouldnt draft because of that. Ford was the one being exposed against New England and Baltimore, but that is on Daboll to make that correction and put an extra te on that side to assist. Allen has had minutes to sit back there and throw, with having bad routes or short wrs have caused this offense to stall. They desperately need to get a big frame wr to solve those issues and run shorter routes in games that the oline is getting exposed. Your not going to be able to get elite everything on this team and the oline held its own. As for gelling yes I still think its a growing process as half the season involved ty and ford being subbed in and out trying to figure out what is best. The leftside has been strong with spain and Dawkins, this needs to stay longer so spain to me is top priority on the re-signing list over phillips and lawson. Kroft and smith can save the team 7.25 mil that can be for a guy like Hooper to come in and pay or you can take that and put it to a wr either way that is wasted money if these guys are at best "meh". 10.5 mil can be saved by letting star and murphy guy. You dump those 4 plus the 90 mil in cap space you can go out and upgrade at a ton of positions as well as extend other guys.

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I think we all agree DE is the biggest need. I wouldn't be surprised to see Murphy restructured because he does add a nice rotational piece. IMO Shaq Lawson needs to be re-signed as he is our best run stopping DE and I wouldn't be opposed to flipping him to the RDE spot and having him play on early downs and Hughes used on 3rd and long. We need to go after one of these big free agent DE's or get one early in the draft. It is a must.

I love Jordan Phillips but he may price himself out and having Luiget and Oliver doesn't make him a necessity. Star likely gets restructured this year as well. We really missed Harrison Phillips. As for the OL. If Spain comes back cheap I am for it, but I don't want to overpay for him. In my ideal world we would flip Feliciano to LG where he played in Oakland and slide Ford inside and go after a premier RT. Have Ty, Long and Bates/Boettger as depth. 

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15 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

I think we all agree DE is the biggest need. I wouldn't be surprised to see Murphy restructured because he does add a nice rotational piece. IMO Shaq Lawson needs to be re-signed as he is our best run stopping DE and I wouldn't be opposed to flipping him to the RDE spot and having him play on early downs and Hughes used on 3rd and long. We need to go after one of these big free agent DE's or get one early in the draft. It is a must.

I love Jordan Phillips but he may price himself out and having Luiget and Oliver doesn't make him a necessity. Star likely gets restructured this year as well. We really missed Harrison Phillips. As for the OL. If Spain comes back cheap I am for it, but I don't want to overpay for him. In my ideal world we would flip Feliciano to LG where he played in Oakland and slide Ford inside and go after a premier RT. Have Ty, Long and Bates/Boettger as depth. 

Nobody has priced themselves out. We have the cap space especially with 2 big contracts (Star and Hughes) getting cut or restructured 

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2 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Nobody has priced themselves out. We have the cap space especially with 2 big contracts (Star and Hughes) getting cut or restructured 

Hughes cant get cut or restructured as his dead cap is higher then his cap hit for 2020 unless you extend him even more kicking the can down the road which Beane isnt a fan of. Star needs to go, he is not worth the money and with Harrison Philips coming back I would rather extend liuget to rotate with him and clear the 3.25 mil they would get for star. Also draft one if possible. 
Jordan Phillips may want to break bank as a DT as he has shined this year so is it really necessary to pay a guy a ton of money when your expectations of Ed Oliver being the starter for your DT? Yes Mcdermott rotates these guys a lot but can you pay someone 11+ mil a year at this point. You have to think extensions are coming for guys like Tre White, Poyer, Hyde, Milano on Defense in 2021 who play 100% of snaps. Not to mention finding a OLB to replace Alexander who is likely gone. Wallace is going to be an ERFA and Kevin Johnson is going to be a FA so if you want to continue to keep the DB corps the same these guys will get smaller contracts this summer.
If Lawson can play LDE then Murphy is expendable and will clear over 7 mil in cap space that can essentially pay Lawson. Which then can create an opportunity to pay either Yannick or Clowney. Clowney typically plays LDE so that can keep Lawson on rightside but if Yannick comes in then Lawson would likely play LDE as yannick is to small to play the leftside. Hughes still has some in him but to me he is now more of a rotational back up and could complement Yannick on that side. 

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4 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Nobody has priced themselves out. We have the cap space especially with 2 big contracts (Star and Hughes) getting cut or restructured 

Just because we have the cap space doesn't mean we should spend it all either though.

Phillips is likely going to seek 10+ a year. Do we really want to pay that with Shaq Lawson or some DE needing a deal this off-season, Milano likely getting extended this off-season so that he isn't going into the final year of a deal and then Dawkins, Poyer, Feliciano and White (not including the 5th year option) all needing extensions this time next season. 

I love Phillips and what he did this year was phenomenal, but we drafted Ed Oliver for the 3T spot. Banking the bank, even when we have the cap space for him is not smart long-term. 

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1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

Star needs to go, he is not worth the money and with Harrison Philips coming back I would rather extend liuget to rotate with him and clear the 3.25 mil they would get for star. Also draft one if possible. 

With us not being cap strung and McDermott/Beane feeling very strongly about having a veteran voice in each position group, I would be surprised if Star is cut. 

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1 minute ago, Trentwannabe said:

With us not being cap strung and McDermott/Beane feeling very strongly about having a veteran voice in each position group, I would be surprised if Star is cut. 

is he even a voice now? Is his voice worth 11.1 million cause thats what his cap hit will be if he stays? Cant Luiget who is a veteran be that voice if need be? Im just not a fan of the guy the rushing defense has stunk and he is a huge part of it. He has no other abilities outside of eating up space and even then he is a liability at that. 

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27 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

is he even a voice now? Is his voice worth 11.1 million cause thats what his cap hit will be if he stays? Cant Luiget who is a veteran be that voice if need be? Im just not a fan of the guy the rushing defense has stunk and he is a huge part of it. He has no other abilities outside of eating up space and even then he is a liability at that. 

I mean to quote you from another thread "All in all it comes down to the coaching staff they clearly know what they are doing".

At least as of right now, they value Star and what he brings. It isn't effecting the Bills cap wise, so to me it is NBD.

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31 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

Just because we have the cap space doesn't mean we should spend it all either though.

Phillips is likely going to seek 10+ a year. Do we really want to pay that with Shaq Lawson or some DE needing a deal this off-season, Milano likely getting extended this off-season so that he isn't going into the final year of a deal and then Dawkins, Poyer, Feliciano and White (not including the 5th year option) all needing extensions this time next season. 

I love Phillips and what he did this year was phenomenal, but we drafted Ed Oliver for the 3T spot. Banking the bank, even when we have the cap space for him is not smart long-term. 

Yes, and one of our problems over the last 2 decades was not keeping our talent when contracts expire. Sure we have Allen, White, Edmunds and Milano coming up down the road but we don't have many holes that need to be filled thru FA. Our depth is fantastic almost across the board for near future so yes we absolutely keep stud players.

We have a few glaring needs (WR, OT and pass rush) but I feel these could be filled via the draft especially with this up coming draft rich at WR and OT and we have no reason to doubt our front office. 

We could always front load Phillips and Lawson and keep there cap hits down when it's time to ante up with our core players

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