WR set next year

[BillsGuy82]

31 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

is he even a voice now? Is his voice worth 11.1 million cause thats what his cap hit will be if he stays? Cant Luiget who is a veteran be that voice if need be? Im just not a fan of the guy the rushing defense has stunk and he is a huge part of it. He has no other abilities outside of eating up space and even then he is a liability at that. 

No he's not worth his contract and Liuget and Phillips made him expendable. He's an obvious casualty this off season unless some contract dead money issue we have with Hughes apparently

[soflbillsfan]

1 minute ago, Trentwannabe said:

I mean to quote you from another thread "All in all it comes down to the coaching staff they clearly know what they are doing".

At least as of right now, they value Star and what he brings. It isn't effecting the Bills cap wise, so to me it is NBD.

haha they invested all that money in to him in order to come, so yes he is here this year but to keep him next year might not make sense especially when guys like lawson and phillips are on their way out who actually have produced. he had 2 years to show what he is made of and he has struggled mightily.  New season is new stories cant settle for someone because they have the cap to keep him when you got other important spots to fill or maintain. Lee Smith, Trent Murphy, and Star all need to be concerned about their roster spots as they are getting paid more then they are producing. Just because they are on the team now doesnt mean they cant upgrade in the offseason.

[soflbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

No he's not worth his contract and Liuget and Phillips made him expendable. He's an obvious casualty this off season unless some contract dead money issue we have with Hughes apparently

Hughes cap hit next year is $9.5 mil if cut it would cost the bills $10.85. 2021 is when you can let him go as his cap hit will be $9.45 with a dead cap of $2.1

Star cap hit  is $10.1 in 2020 and dead cap or $7.8 so it clears $2.3 (I was wrong at some point saying $3.25). Post June 1st cut could lead to a dead cap of $2.6 in 2020 and $5.2 in 2021 clearing $7.5 in 2020.

Murphy is a cap hit of $8.95 in 2020 with a dead cap of $1.75 clearing $7.2 mil in space. 

If you flat out cut Star and Murphy hat is a savings of $9.5 mil that can be put to Shaq or Jordan with a new contract. So to me I will take Shaq or Jordan over Murphy/star any day. Hughes can be a 2021 casualty.

[Trentwannabe]

5 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

haha they invested all that money in to him in order to come, so yes he is here this year but to keep him next year might not make sense especially when guys like lawson and phillips are on their way out who actually have produced. he had 2 years to show what he is made of and he has struggled mightily.  New season is new stories cant settle for someone because they have the cap to keep him when you got other important spots to fill or maintain. Lee Smith, Trent Murphy, and Star all need to be concerned about their roster spots as they are getting paid more then they are producing. Just because they are on the team now doesnt mean they cant upgrade in the offseason.

I mean don't get me wrong I won't shed a tear if he is let go, or Murphy or Lee Smith. I would be in favour of swapping Star contract for Phillips and have Phillips play 1T. I still think Reconstructing Murphy is smart as he is a nice rotational guy, just not worth his current contract. 

[BillsGuy82]

22 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

I mean don't get me wrong I won't shed a tear if he is let go, or Murphy or Lee Smith. I would be in favour of swapping Star contract for Phillips and have Phillips play 1T. I still think Reconstructing Murphy is smart as he is a nice rotational guy, just not worth his current contract. 

That's if Murphy would take restructured contract. But like @soflbillsfan said. I'd take Phillips extended at the money saved from Star/Murphy any day. 

[Trentwannabe]

27 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

That's if Murphy would take restructured contract. But like @soflbillsfan said. I'd take Phillips extended at the money saved from Star/Murphy any day. 

I would too assuming Phillips goes back to 1T. Murphy seems like the type that would take the pay cut.

[BigMountainGoat]

On 28/12/2019 at 3:58 PM, Trentwannabe said:

Duke Williams is going to ball out tomorrow. 

Well at least we can put the myth of Duke Williams to bed, he looked a low end back up WR. No reason to think he'll be on the roster next season 

[BigMountainGoat]

9 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Hughes cap hit next year is $9.5 mil if cut it would cost the bills $10.85. 2021 is when you can let him go as his cap hit will be $9.45 with a dead cap of $2.1

Star cap hit  is $10.1 in 2020 and dead cap or $7.8 so it clears $2.3 (I was wrong at some point saying $3.25). Post June 1st cut could lead to a dead cap of $2.6 in 2020 and $5.2 in 2021 clearing $7.5 in 2020.

Murphy is a cap hit of $8.95 in 2020 with a dead cap of $1.75 clearing $7.2 mil in space. 

If you flat out cut Star and Murphy hat is a savings of $9.5 mil that can be put to Shaq or Jordan with a new contract. So to me I will take Shaq or Jordan over Murphy/star any day. Hughes can be a 2021 casualty.

With our rotation of DTs, it makes little sense to cut Star. We need players to rotate in who know the scheme, and if Alexander retires we also need experienced voices in the locker room. 

[soflbillsfan]

5 hours ago, BigMountainGoat said:

With our rotation of DTs, it makes little sense to cut Star. We need players to rotate in who know the scheme, and if Alexander retires we also need experienced voices in the locker room. 

Im over the voice thing the bills have Hyde Poyer Tre Hughes Milano all there from day 1 of the offseason when Mcdermott took the job they have the veteran voices on that defense not to mention the guys who have been there multiple years. The defense is strong enough that the voices do not need to have multiple, not to mention the coaching staff. Honestly the only voice that needs to be a concern for on that defense is Edmunds as he is running the show on the field. As for Star your correct rotation is key which is why re-signing Luiget who has been just as good for a cheaper price and bringing phillips back would have the 4 man rotation with Jordan, Oliver, Harrison, and Luiget at DT. Paying a guy 11 mil to rotate and be said voice, which I have yet to see in any interviews or discussions in the locker room show that Star has an actual voice? For those who believe he is worth keeping around based on a veteran voice show me some proof this guy actually speaks up on this defense? He didnt in Carolina and he hasn't in buffalo, he is a soft spoken guy who keeps to himself. Paying someone who has been a liability on defense and the 3rd highest on the team I expect the guy to be a stud and he is mediocre at Best. I dont care if the Bills have the cap space to keep him its not the point, you can upgrade talent which needs to be done as teams have ran on the dline numerous occassions. Star has been here for 2 years and 5 times the defense got ran on for 200+ yards. He is a key reason for this and they need to move on from him. 

[Yibbyl]

6 hours ago, BigMountainGoat said:

Well at least we can put the myth of Duke Williams to bed, he looked a low end back up WR. No reason to think he'll be on the roster next season 

I've re-watched this game and the optimism some of us had was truthfully not reinforced, but IMO neither is this comment entirely justified either. There were 3 pooly thrown balls directed at Duke that simply were not catchable. This means he caught 75% of the catchable passes thrown his way. Not "low end back up" level... again, IMO. However, even when he got open, his route running was far from crisp or precise. He rounds off his routes plain and simple. With his lack of speed, he was still getting open, however, vs. a very weak secondary. The Jets didn't have studs in the backfield to begin with this year and injuries hurt that group as well, leaving them with scrubs at this point of the season. This is why he most likely shined in the CFL, as well. The competition just wasn't up to snuff for NFL caliber play.

Duke showed he is a backup, capable of delivering vs. other backups. That's it. Pretty much like we see in preseason games. Essentially, I have Duke now no better than a #4 receiver...for any team. His size and willingness to attack the ball are strengths, but I doubt he ever becomes a polished route runner at his age as well as because his body is simply too big to allow him to be coordinated enough to be shifty or more precise in and out of his cuts. In short, he is what he is...someone worthy of no more than about 4-6 snaps per game, the majority near the goal line or a short first down marker. I now better understand the focus of keeping other players active over him, with the idea that the ST play they contribute would be consistently more valuable than what Duke might be able to add vs. typical NFL level DB's, where he realistically would struggle to get open. It was a nice dream for a while though.

[soflbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Yibbyl said:

I've re-watched this game and the optimism some of us had was truthfully not reinforced, but IMO neither is this comment entirely justified either. There were 3 pooly thrown balls directed at Duke that simply were not catchable. This means he caught 75% of the catchable passes thrown his way. Not "low end back up" level... again, IMO. However, even when he got open, his route running was far from crisp or precise. He rounds off his routes plain and simple. With his lack of speed, he was still getting open, however, vs. a very weak secondary. The Jets didn't have studs in the backfield to begin with this year and injuries hurt that group as well, leaving them with scrubs at this point of the season. This is why he most likely shined in the CFL, as well. The competition just wasn't up to snuff for NFL caliber play.

Duke showed he is a backup, capable of delivering vs. other backups. That's it. Pretty much like we see in preseason games. Essentially, I have Duke now no better than a #4 receiver...for any team. His size and willingness to attack the ball are strengths, but I doubt he ever becomes a polished route runner at his age as well as because his body is simply too big to allow him to be coordinated enough to be shifty or more precise in and out of his cuts. In short, he is what he is...someone worthy of no more than about 4-6 snaps per game, the majority near the goal line or a short first down marker. I now better understand the focus of keeping other players active over him, with the idea that the ST play they contribute would be consistently more valuable than what Duke might be able to add vs. typical NFL level DB's, where he realistically would struggle to get open. It was a nice dream for a while though.

I agree with you long term however for playoffs I truly think this guy needs to be active for those situations in the red zone and the short passes on first down. They need someone to go up and get the ball they haven't really had that. As you mention other players on special teams have filled in over him which I think is necessary. I just would like for them to replace a guy who doesnt contribute much on offense in snaps nor on special teams. That is why I would be fine with them dressing 6 wrs and taking away a different positional player. He is currently the only big WR who can get it giving Allen a bigger target at times. It will also throw Houston off a bit having him on the field in some snaps

As for future meaning this offseason I see him getting buried on the depth chart and likely not making the team if the Bills bring in a couple of WR in free agency or the draft, he will stick to the offseason but once they go to 53 man roster I think he will be the oddman out and either Mckenzie or Foster will also be out as well. 

[Trentwannabe]

6 hours ago, BigMountainGoat said:

Well at least we can put the myth of Duke Williams to bed, he looked a low end back up WR. No reason to think he'll be on the roster next season 

That's a weird post to quote considering he did ball out. 

Duke should be starting over Isiah McKenzie right now. Andre Roberts and Robert Foster can do what McKenzie does. As for next year? I hope John Brown is a WR2 because we got some stud in the off-season or draft, so I could care less about the backend of the roster. 

[BigMountainGoat]

42 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

That's a weird post to quote considering he did ball out. 

Duke should be starting over Isiah McKenzie right now. Andre Roberts and Robert Foster can do what McKenzie does. As for next year? I hope John Brown is a WR2 because we got some stud in the off-season or draft, so I could care less about the backend of the roster. 

No he didn't. He got a few easy yards, which any WR would have got. He showed nothing of his supposed size and contested catch ability. Any WR we put out would have got what he did, and he had some terrible moments like not knowing where the 1st down marker was and dropping the easiest of catches 

Mckenzie offers at least pure speed for a few gadget plays each game

[BigMountainGoat]

59 minutes ago, Yibbyl said:

I've re-watched this game and the optimism some of us had was truthfully not reinforced, but IMO neither is this comment entirely justified either..... Not "low end back up" level... again, IMO. 

OK, I'll concede that. I'll give you middle of the road backup. He is just another guy who you could pick up.

[BigMountainGoat]

53 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

I agree with you long term however for playoffs I truly think this guy needs to be active for those situations in the red zone and the short passes on first down. 

What does he offer in that situation that Tyler Kroft or Dawson Knox don't?