jrry32 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: Yet he is a legitimate SB MVP. What did Goff do in the SB again? Oh, yes. Sucked. Joe Flacco was a Super Bowl MVP. Dan Marino sucked in his only Super Bowl. Try making a better argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 15 hours ago, pwny said: This is a front office that is only one of three in NFL history to draft a QB top 10, have the QB flop and still keep their jobs. They then went out and spent $80M on a QB that has played 11 snaps for the team. The team is going to have another losing record this year if things keep up how they are. Do you really think they care whether they find out if Minshew is the guy? All they care about is finding a way to keep their job, and the way towards that is not by having to explain why they spent $80M on a QB that’s viewed worse than a 6th round rookie that’s not even winning games. This decision was obvious from miles away. Losing games and having to explain why they spent big on another trash QB they lost faith in to win them games after 11 snaps is about the closest thing to a guarantee that people get fired as there is. And in the end, that’s all they care about. This is when you need Shad to step in and force them to do the right thing. They're not putting the Jaguars' long-term needs first. 15 hours ago, N4L said: They already know who minshew is. The guy needs experience. Experience can also come in practice and watching how another guy works and prepares. He can still learn while he's on the bench. Look at guys like Rodgers and Garoppolo. He was starting to develop some bad habits. sometimes it's good for a guy to get their feet wet, have some ups and downs, take their lumps, then have a few games to watch how a veteran does it. Let's not forget he's in the first year of his rookie contract. The jags are going to have him on their roster for another 3 seasons after this one. The people clamoring for him to continue starting act like they just cut him or sent him to the moon or something. He's still on their roster and is a part of their future regardless of who starts the rest of this year This is the right move. Minshew had some good games but like I said, he was developing bad habits. Watching Nick after playing so much will help him tremendously I actually think this is the best move for his long term development How can they know who Minshew is? He has 9 games under his belt. How often have we seen a rookie QB play well, get benched, and then succeed? It might well have happened, but I can't come up with anybody off the top of my head. You measure what Minshew is by seeing how he adapts to defenses adapting to him. You let him play through the challenges. That's how you discern whether he's a flash in the pan or a guy you should count on. Simply put, your contract argument is a bad one. I clearly explained why it's important for the Jaguars to have an idea of what he is going into the offseason. I also explained the challenges in benching him for Foles. Due to his contract, Foles isn't going anywhere. You're going to be placed right back in the same situation at the start of 2020. I think it's a bad move for his development. I think it's a bad move for the Jaguars' ability to plan long term. 14 hours ago, Tugboat said: Ehhh...i think they have a decent idea what they have in Minshew at this point. If you're saying Nick Foles is what he's been...aside from the Rams stint, that's mostly been better than what Minshew has been. That's the "hail mary" aspect. If Foles actually does come in and spark something. That's the only chance the Jaguars have of making the playoffs at this point. Big spark, and a crazy run. It's not likely, and i'm not some big Nick Foles disciple...but you have to at least try it. You're framing it like they're somehow going to be locked and loaded clear cut obvious whether Minshew is the QB of the future or not, based on probably 3-4 games mid-season that he might miss while they give Foles some run. I don't get it. That's not going to really make a huge difference either way, in assessing whether Minshew is the guy or not. The Jaguars are going to be in an awkward QB situation no matter what basically...unless Foles steps in and plays like a legit quality starter with a strong winning record. Even if you just run Minshew out for the rest of the season...it's still going to be an up in the air question for the future of the Jaguars QB position. Is he really the answer? Is he really the guy you're going to hitch your wagon to for the next decade? Does he have the upside to be that good? Or is he just amazingly prepared to step in and hold the fort as a very experienced rookie? Is he just going to put you in David Garrard territory again for years? Those questions on whether Minshew is The Answer or not, are going to persist...no matter what you do. By running Foles out there, you can at least settle that component of the QB equation in Jacksonville. You can find out pretty quickly, if Foles is going to be a short term answer or not. Work around his unmovable dead cap from there. You're simply never going to know if Foles can be the guy for a couple years or not...unless you try it. Minshew will always still be there as a safety net - but as it stands right now, he's not taking this team to the playoffs. It'd be stupid to not at least try something else...when you already have it in house, with a lot invested in it. How can they know what he is? He has played 9 games. As for Foles, Minshew's numbers (TD:Int ratio, passer rating, YPA, etc.) AS A ROOKIE are better than Foles' career numbers. So no, I don't agree that Foles has been better than what Minshew is. And unlike Foles, Minshew conceivably has a much higher ceiling than the player he currently is. They may not get a definite answer this year on Minshew, but they'll get a good enough answer to decide whether or not to draft a QB if the right one is available in the first round. 12 hours ago, Jakuvious said: Hm. Not a fan. Strikes me as a sunk cost fallacy kind of move. They're not starting Foles because it's best for the team, they're starting Foles to try to justify the money they've already spent on Foles. But they've spent that regardless, so just start the best QB. I'm not going to pretend Minshew has been elite, but he's played well enough that had he been a first round pick, everyone would be talking about how the Jaguars are getting an excellent early return on their investment and he looks like a QBOTF. But since Minshew was low investment, they're going to try to justify their higher investment QB instead. It's a business move, not a football one, and that's poor prioritization. That's exactly what it is. 16 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: So in essence, a more accomplished Jared Goff, Gotcha! 2:1 TD:Int Ratio, 7.7 YPA, 93.1 Passer Rating, No SB MVP, No Jersey's "Plural" in the HOF? Gotcha! Take away theJeff Fisher debacle of the Rams and there numbers are even more similar without being a full time Starter. You ever heard that saying about Glass Houses? 🍺🙊🙉 Sure. If we ignore that Goff's numbers are better across the board. While we're on this topic, Wentz has a career 7.0 YPA and a 92.7 passer rating. Rut roh. The Jeff Fisher debacle is balanced out by his outlier season under Chip. If you take away those two outliers, you get numbers similar to his career numbers. Let's be honest, Foles is Joe Flacco with higher peaks and lower troughs. 9 hours ago, Art_Vandalay said: This is the most obvious decision the Jags could make. It'd be a whole lot easier to bench Foles and go back to Minshew than the other way around. Foles spent most of his career as a backup. Why can't he do it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 54 minutes ago, N4L said: I find this comment hilarious because good business people do not make decisions based on sunk costs. The money being paid to foles is a sunk cost, and should not be used to evaluate future decisions. Its called the marginals principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost Starting foles is the right decision, but not because of the money. Its because today, at this moment of time, he gives them the best chance to win. This isn’t really the same thing as with the sunk cost fallacy though. In this case, going with the sunk cost actually makes sense for the front office. Let’s pretend for a minute that it’s obvious to everyone that Minshew is better than Foles. The Jaguars are 4-5 right now and haven’t beaten a good team all year. With things going as they are, they finish 7-9. The end of the year meetings come around and Coughlin, Caldwell and company have to explain to Shad Khan what went wrong. They then get to explain to Shad Khan why they spend $88 million of Shad Khan’s money on a guy who wasn’t even good enough to start on a 7-9 team. This coming on the heels of giving Blake Bortles a bunch of money the season before and then benching him for not being good enough to lead a 5 win team through the season just last year. This also during the same season they alienated the team’s best player. Even if Foles is worse, from a self preservation standpoint, the team has to put him out there. Then if it doesn’t work, you try to pin it on the lack of chemistry with players after a long time not practicing, not looking the same after the injury, or anything else that you can to drive discussion away from the fact that you spent a boatload of money on a QB who can’t even start for a losing team for the second straight year. If Minshew was winning, or the front office wasn’t on the hot seat, then sure it’s a sunk cost and you just eat the damages the money loss causes for the better on field product. But the front office is in a situation where they are teetering on being fired; and not winning, while wasting 88 million on a backup probably pushes them over the edge to be fired. And they are going to do anything to try to avoid that situation. And when teams get into a situation of trying to save their jobs, often times they make the worse decision because it’s a decision that’s easier to justify alongside predetermined factors. At the very least, the Jaguars are at that point. Sunk cost never makes sense for the business as a whole, but it often reflects better upon certain individuals within an entity to not call attention to the sunk costs they have caused. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, jrry32 said: Joe Flacco was a Super Bowl MVP. Dan Marino sucked in his only Super Bowl. Try making a better argument. Which begs the question, is Dan Marino actually even a good quarterback? Or is he the Kirk Cousins of his era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 40 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said: Which begs the question, is Dan Marino actually even a good quarterback? Or is he the Kirk Cousins of his era? Kirk Cousins seems kind of generous. I'm sure he was just padding his stats like Matt Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 hours ago, topwop1 said: After 2020 yes, it's not that big a of dead cap hit, but if they were to release him after this season then that is where it would hurt the Jags cap for next season. They trade him instead of cut him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 On 11/5/2019 at 1:40 PM, 11sanchez11 said: gardner has fumbled 11x? christ the sad part is he has big hands so im not sure where the problem lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 foles will be gone by the 2021 offseason unless we trade him as a post june 1st trade where we will save his entire salary by the looks of it if i can read the chart right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: 9 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: Yet he is a legitimate SB MVP. What did Goff do in the SB again? Oh, yes. Sucked. Joe Flacco was a Super Bowl MVP. Dan Marino sucked in his only Super Bowl. Try making a better argument. You want to compare Nick Foles to Joe Flacco to fit an agenda that's fine. However please don't ever utter the words Dan Marino in a comparison with Jared Goff again unless said comparison is that he too will never Win a SB. There is Nothing remotely similar between the two other then them both being Right handed QB's in the NFL. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: You want to compare Nick Foles to Joe Flacco to fit an agenda that's fine. However please don't ever utter the words Dan Marino in a comparison with Jared Goff again unless said comparison is that he too will never Win a SB. There is Nothing remotely similar between the two other then them both being Right handed QB's in the NFL. Thanks. Agreed. Unlike Marino, Jared Goff will retire with multiple rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 hours ago, jrry32 said: Foles spent most of his career as a backup. Why can't he do it now? Because one is a veteran SB MVP getting paid a ton while the other is a rookie 6th rounder that's been average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 The Eagles fans really like them some BDN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 13 hours ago, jrry32 said: Agreed. Unlike Marino, Jared Goff will retire with multiple rings. lol? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: lol? thats gotta be homer font Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Nice Minshew was getting super overrated. Let’s go BDN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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