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[BroncosFan2010]

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Wowww!! With Lawrence and Fields coming out, and to pass on seeing Lock for a year in this system that's bold lol.

I think Joe is right up there with Lawrence and better than Fields. And Lock isnt in the same stratosphere. 

Trade downs are always slobbered over but if you think a guy can be a franchise QB, you dont trade down. Its tremendously hard to find a true franchise guy. I think Joe has a really good chance to being a Phillip Rivers caliber QB (15 year starter who isnt ever in danger of being replaced). I would deal 3 FRP's for a guy that is going to be a non replacement level QB, even if he isnt truly a 1st tier guy like Brady or Peyton. 

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I think Joe has a really good chance to being a Phillip Rivers caliber QB (15 year starter who isnt ever in danger of being replaced). I would deal 3 FRP's for a guy that is going to be a non replacement level QB, even if he isnt truly a 1st tier guy like Brady or Peyton. 

There's a lot to digest in your post so I'll try to get to the Crux of it. No team should be heading into the draft demanding a 15 year starter with the pick that's setting the pick up for failure imo.

Luck was that - Career didn't last 15 years.

Wentz was that- career doesn't have a 15 year trajectory. 

Goff was that - I can see the 15 year trajectory assuming they don't abandon the oline.

Newton- I think the idea was for him to evolve into that his career wont last 15 years.

In round 2 - Brees has that trajectory, Carr might not have that trajectory but it's a lot greater than a rookie deal, as well as Jimmy G, as well as Plummer, as well as Dalton, Kaep was well worth the rookie deal.

Us as fans need to stop demanding Peyton Manning and John elway and just Focus on making this team better. Lock can be a top 15 game manager so I'm good with that unless Burrow fell.

[thebestever6]

Matt Ryan is a far superior qb than that of a Joe Flacco, but there's a reason Joe Flacco won a Championship and Ryan didn't. 

And dont give me the defensive bs stats because Matt Ryan had a pretty good defense, and lead 28 - 3.

Went almost 20 picks a part .

Edited November 11, 2019 by thebestever6

[broncofan48]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

Matt Ryan is a far superior qb than that of a Joe Flacco, but there's a reason Joe Flacco won a Championship and Ryan didn't. 

And dont give me the defensive bs stats because Matt Ryan had a pretty good defense, and lead 28 - 3.

Went almost 20 picks a part .

They went on a crazy playoff run and were one Hail Mary away from not making it out of the 1st round?

 

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

They went on a crazy playoff run and were one Hail Mary away from not making it out of the 1st round?

 

Okay and who managed games better during that run than Matt Ryan has done in his entire career???

11 TDs-0 ints you can try to discredit Joe all you want, but why did Matt Ryan contribute to blowing a 28-3 lead??

Matt Ryan is the better QB no debate about it. Joe in my opinion in his prime was the better manager of a football game. It's just an opinion and I have no facts to back it up my eyes may be deceiving me.

[broncofan48]

3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Okay and who managed games better during that run than Matt Ryan has done in his entire career???

11 TDs-0 ints you can try to discredit Joe all you want, but why did Matt Ryan contribute to blowing a 28-3 lead??

Matt Ryan is the better QB no debate about it. Joe in my opinion in his prime was the better manager of a football game. It's just an opinion and I have no facts to back it up my eyes may be deceiving me.

And outside of a few runs; ie Flacco, Dilfer, Brad Johnson and 2015 Manning having an elite QB gives you the best odds at winning a chipper.  Especially when a mediocre game manager such as Flacco gets a big contract. 
 

And that’s a tough spot to be in as a GM, do you let the guy walk knowing that he is solid if unspectacular and try to find the next QBOTF, or give him big money which then makes finding talent to surround him much more difficult.

Thats why I hope Lock is an elite player or completely blows because otherwise in 3 years we will be back to square 1.   An ok QB and a tough decision to make on his contract.  

[thebestever6]

13 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

And outside of a few runs; ie Flacco, Dilfer, Brad Johnson and 2015 Manning having an elite QB gives you the best odds at winning a chipper.  Especially when a mediocre game manager such as Flacco gets a big contract. 
 

And that’s a tough spot to be in as a GM, do you let the guy walk knowing that he is solid if unspectacular and try to find the next QBOTF, or give him big money which then makes finding talent to surround him much more difficult.

Thats why I hope Lock is an elite player or completely blows because otherwise in 3 years we will be back to square 1.   An ok QB and a tough decision to make on his contract.  

You worry about all those things when you get to a second contract. If Elway supports Lock like I think he's going to Lock may take some sort of discount not saying he's going to play for free. And you always look for the next Lamar Jackson, Colin K, Derek Carr, Dak Prescott, Russ Wilson in the mean time.

And Zombie Peyton is undervalued I truly don't think we win that title with Brock. Peyton was a wizard in game Management aka situational football even in a decline. 

You also forgot about  BDN Foles. And Brady had some very nice supporting cast throughout his runs look up his defensive and offensive efficiency ratings.

We act like Bill B underserved Brady which simply isn't true.

And if Joe Flacco was a mediocre game manager in his prime Matt Ryan must of been below average at that. I get that it's a team sport but top 16 game managers close out 28-3 leads they just do.

Edited November 11, 2019 by thebestever6

[broncos67]

35 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Matt Ryan is a far superior qb than that of a Joe Flacco, but there's a reason Joe Flacco won a Championship and Ryan didn't. 

And dont give me the defensive bs stats because Matt Ryan had a pretty good defense, and lead 28 - 3.

Went almost 20 picks a part .

Matt Ryan has played with inferior teams, and mostly inferior talent his entire career. I agree he should shoulder some blame for them not winning, but the offense didn't blow a 28-3 lead.

Winning a SB does not make you a better QB. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were not better QBs than Dan Marino or Philip Rivers.

[The Helicopter]

I hope we draft a QB to compete with Lock for the starting position.

[BroncosFan2010]

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No team should be heading into the draft demanding a 15 year starter with the pick that's setting the pick up for failure imo.

I mean, Phillip is a 15 year starter because his health is insane. That wasn't really what I was trying to say. What I mean was that Joe is the type of QB that may not hit that 1st tier, but should be a guy in the 2nd tier that doesn't need to be replaced. That Rivers, Ryan, Eli tier. Some aged better than others, but a guy that isn't a bubble or replacement level starter.

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Us as fans need to stop demanding Peyton Manning and John elway and just Focus on making this team better. Lock can be a top 15 game manager so I'm good with that unless Burrow fell.

That's literally what I said. I don't think Joe is likely to be elite, but he is a hell of a lot more likely to be a excellent 2nd tier QB than anyone we have had sniff this roster as a draft pick since Elway.

It doesn't matter though. We wont be bad enough to get him. We will start Lock for a few games, he will flash just enough, we will avoid drafting a QB and then as a full time starter next season he will suck. You are confident in terms of speaking in absolutes, so there, I just did the same.

[thebestever6]

3 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Matt Ryan has played with inferior teams, and mostly inferior talent his entire career. I agree he should shoulder some blame for them not winning, but the offense didn't blow a 28-3 lead.

Winning a SB does not make you a better QB. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were not better QBs than Dan Marino or Philip Rivers.

Matt Ryan has played with inferior teams? Yet Julio is better than any weapon Joe has had and also is a hall of famer. Also had tony G and one of the best number 2 wrs in Roddy White. Joe had Boldin and Smith at the end of their primes lol.

[thebestever6]

3 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

That's literally what I said. I don't think Joe is likely to be elite, but he is a hell of a lot more likely to be a excellent 2nd tier QB than anyone we have had sniff this roster as a draft pick since Elway.

It doesn't matter though. We wont be bad enough to get him. We will start Lock for a few games, he will flash just enough, we will avoid drafting a QB and then as a full time starter next season he will suck. You are confident in terms of speaking in absolutes, so there, I just did the same.

I like Joe Burrow a lot he does have a higher ceiling than Drew: I just like Drew a lot and a top 5 pick can be spent on better resources. I’m going to do an ok write up as to why and tag you in it so it’s no just me speaking in absolutes. It’s more so historically speaking more likely than not to repeat itself.

franchise  qbs are over stated not overrated if that makes sense. I’d demand a very specific set of skills to pick a guy top 10 in our current state.

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

I like Joe Burrow a lot he does have a higher ceiling than Drew: I just like Drew a lot and a top 5 pick can be spent on better resources. I’m going to do an ok write up as to why and tag you in it so it’s no just me speaking in absolutes. It’s more so historically speaking more likely than not to repeat itself.

franchise  qbs are over stated not overrated if that makes sense. I’d demand a very specific set of skills to pick a guy top 10 in our current state.

Drew Lock physically has the skill set to be a terrific QB.  His arm talent/athleticism if not elite are in the tier just below.  There is absolutely nothing about him physically that would suggest he could fail in the NFL.

However, we know so much more goes into being a legitimate NFL QB than physical talent and I do question if Lock possesses those traits.  I don’t think he’s a naturally accurate player and it’s hard as hell to evaluate what goes on between a guys ears.  I will say he’s a reported hard worker that wants to be great (something Lynch never had) so that’s in his and Denver’s favor.  
 

I also think the current spread system allows a lot of these QBs to get through their college careers without facing pressure.  In the NFL, even with a terrific OL you are pressured 50+% of the time.  A QB needs to be able to recognize it and get the ball out quickly as well as be able to manipulate the pocket to buy time (which IMO is a natural trait that is incredibly difficult to coach/develop).  Burrow makes this look easy at the college level and is one of the most effective passers under pressure PFF has ever evaluated.  He also has at minimum NFL average physical traits or better across the board.  Daniel Jones possesses these traits as well, which is why I liked him so much in this past draft.

I used to be all about the physical talent at QB and figured everything else would fall into place with coaching/experience.  I have transitioned here and give me the QB that thrives under adversity as opposed to the one who is athletic with a cannon for an arm that struggles in these other areas.

[Cutler06]

The speed of the NFL has always seemed the biggest hurdle to a rookie/new QB in this league. I agree with Germ-x that Lock has all the necessary physical tools, so the mental part is what he has to show he can handle, still yet to be determined. I took notice in the pre-season he seemed to get better each and better, at least prior to his injury. So at the least, he showed promise, enough to warrant an audition before drafting a new QB IMO.

[thebestever6]

@germ-x

I'm not ripping the bandaid off of Lock unless a couple things are a given.

1) he sucks shows zero ability has like 54% completion percentage and a 1-2 td to INT ratio. 

2) there's a qb who has Peyton Manning or Tom Brady esque processing skills , or A Patrick Mahomes Aaron Rodgers like skill set .

3) A guy like Burrow falls to them and the Pick in a trade compensation package doesn't outweigh what you'd get for Lock by enough.

You could loveeee a prospect but what's the alternatives with the other guys.