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Team Building the FUTURE is now!

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2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I believe the deal offered to CHJ was actually 2/25 with only one year of guarantees. It's pretty clear he's not in their plans, but they'll leave the door open just in case he insanely decides not to cash out and they can maintain maximum financial flexibility.

I agree that realistically, 2021 is when the window opens. Just no way to realistically address all needs in one year and the core is just so young. But from a purely financial perspective, this is the "spending window" that makes the most sense. Can load up on guaranteed money in 2020 and 2021 while Chubb, Sutton and Lock are still cheap. It's the sign of a flawed rebuilding process that it all feels a year off from the ideal scenario in either direction. 

In an ideal world, no one we sign as a priority FA will be on their 3rd contract (exception behing Trevathan, given the ILB landscape, really only Schobert profiles as an impact ILB UFA), and we get them with at least 2 years (even if the 2nd isn't guaranteed, it offers the potential for a 2021 contribution).   One year stopgaps, or 30+ year old other guys...no thanks.   

I totally get that you can't do it all in 1 offseason, but the signings really have to offer 2021 hope as well.   The Tramaine Brock / Veldheer / Clinton McDonald acquisitions from 2018 were mercifully few and far between this year (Theo Riddick being the only notable and horrible exception), so Elway's MO this time around seems like he's not committed yet to pushing his chips in...which would be a smart move to keep on that path.  Even picking up Mike Daniels in-season was solid not just for 2019, but because he was also a RFA for 2020.   You'd like to see the same type of approach with Elway this offseason, where there's some future gain baked in, and not all about trying to catch up all at once.  That approach in 2016-18 is what got us into the mess we're just digging ourselves out of.

ILB & WR are the 2 areas where we likely need a guy who can make a Week 1 impact.  It's not realistic to think anyone, even a Rd1 rookie, can do either job.   At the same time, it would be great if it's a guy with some 2021+ value, too.   It's why I was hopeful on WR's like Dorsett/Higgins/Perriman (the latter being a pipe dream after his December surge, he's not going to be cheap) - while our future at WR & ILB should be addressed in-draft, no way we can pencil a rookie as a Week 1 impact guy.  I still think we should double dip WR Day 1-2 first & Rd 3-4 for another WR, even if we go FA, too.   But we should consider a draft & FA double dip into ILB as well, just probably only 2 obvious week 1 impact guys I see (likely I'm missing a 3rd candidate, haven't looked that hard) for FA in ILB, though.

Edited by Broncofan

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Why does Denver need to wait until 2021? Denver is fully capable of signing players this year that impact 2021, 2022, and 2023.  It all depends on the player being signed and the price of their contract.  The notion that Denver is “ 1 year away” doesn’t and shouldn’t prevent them for signing a player that is a key piece over the next 2-3 years....

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35 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Why does Denver need to wait until 2021? Denver is fully capable of signing players this year that impact 2021, 2022, and 2023.  It all depends on the player being signed and the price of their contract.  The notion that Denver is “ 1 year away” doesn’t and shouldn’t prevent them for signing a player that is a key piece over the next 2-3 years....

No argument if the guy has 2021 potential - the point made was the stopgap signings like 2018 (or Riddick last year) shouldn’t restart just because we’re making progress.   Other than Kareem Jackson going young has benefitted us the most and he was on a 3-year deal too (Purcell the other small but cheap upgrade who’s not young, but even he had multiple years of cheap cost control).  

Edited by Broncofan

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3 hours ago, germ-x said:

Why does Denver need to wait until 2021? Denver is fully capable of signing players this year that impact 2021, 2022, and 2023.  It all depends on the player being signed and the price of their contract.  The notion that Denver is “ 1 year away” doesn’t and shouldn’t prevent them for signing a player that is a key piece over the next 2-3 years....

If they can bring in some young, high level guys in free agency, they definitely shouldn't wait until 2021. You want to have as much cap flexibility as possible when you start paying the young core so loading up on guaranteed dollars in 2020 and 2021 makes sense. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

If they can bring in some young, high level guys in free agency, they definitely shouldn't wait until 2021. You want to have as much cap flexibility as possible when you start paying the young core so loading up on guaranteed dollars in 2020 and 2021 makes sense. 

The 49ers won four games last year and are in the Super Bowl this year.  However, I couldn't tell you what kind of team they will have next year.  If they drop back to a four-win team, it wouldn't shock me.  If they go back to the Super Bowl that wouldn't shock me.  

If the Broncos want to create a dynasty, I think they avoid the quick fixes and build for the long-term.

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1 minute ago, jsthomp2007 said:

The 49ers won four games last year and are in the Super Bowl this year.  However, I couldn't tell you what kind of team they will have next year.  If they drop back to a four-win team, it wouldn't shock me.  If they go back to the Super Bowl that wouldn't shock me.  

If the Broncos want to create a dynasty, I think they avoid the quick fixes and build for the long-term.

Signing high level players in their mid-20s is building for the long term. It’s good to sign good football players.

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I think Schobert will be quite a bit more expensive than Trevathan, younger and less injury history. So, ideally we can get Danny for around 3 / 30M or so. Which would be great, becaue he is a much better player than Joe. I trust his pedigree much, much more. 

I think we will resign and sign some vets to keep the mix up, but if we are talking young talents, there are tons of guys that may settle for 'prove it' type deals: Ronald Darby, Eli Apple, Kendall Fuller, Andrew Billings, Tajae Sharpe, A'Shawn Robinson. All these guys are dealing with vaiables that could prevent big money. Lots of young talent in UFA this offseason. We just need to balance that with vets. You cant build a winning culture with a true all-out youth movement in the NFL IMO

Edited by BroncosFan2010

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28 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I think Schobert will be quite a bit more expensive than Trevathan, younger and less injury history. So, ideally we can get Danny for around 3 / 30M or so. Which would be great, becaue he is a much better player than Joe. I trust his pedigree much, much more. 

I think we will resign and sign some vets to keep the mix up, but if we are talking young talents, there are tons of guys that may settle for 'prove it' type deals: Ronald Darby, Eli Apple, Kendall Fuller, Andrew Billings, Tajae Sharpe, A'Shawn Robinson. All these guys are dealing with vaiables that could prevent big money. Lots of young talent in UFA this offseason. We just need to balance that with vets. You cant build a winning culture with a true all-out youth movement in the NFL IMO

It's a tricky balance though - going with stopgaps often stunts the growth of younger players.   And high-priced vets, unless it's a skill set that ages well, no thanks.  

To extend the analogy to KC and their D - they traded for Frank Clark to be their key EDGE guy with a 2-way game, and they acquired 5 starters - Honey Badger was the big $ signing (along with Clark trade and Anthony Hitchens at ILB), but the key additions were all in that mid-20's group you alluded to - Ramik Wilson &  Charvarius Ward in mid-20's, Breeland a little older at 28, but at a very reasonable mid-level price-tag.  Juan Thorhnill was a huge draft revelation.

Clark & Honey Badger were both elite talents with a skill set that should age well, and also at the right age where 3-years isn't a scary prop.  I get it's hard to recreate the same each offseason, as the talent pools dictate the market, but in a perfect world, DEN isn't committing to guys who are likely breaking down, or way overpriced in 2021.  

Trevathan is one age 29 guy I could live with, because the skill set he owns ages so well, and his fit into the Fangio skill set.  Even then, there's risk, but the thinking is justifiable.   The worry I'd have is that Elway wasn't afraid to stop-gap his way with far worse teams in 2017 & 2018, with guys who had no future year appeal (and worse, stank it up that lone year - Peko probably being the one exception)....that would be a recipe to stunt our return to sustained contention.  Hopefully the 2018-19 successes with youth remind him to avoid the stopgap approach.

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On 1/22/2020 at 9:24 AM, Broncofan said:

In Fangio's scheme, absolutely.   At the same time, he's done enough to get a nice payday.  It just shouldn't be with us.   As @broncos_fan _from _uk alluded to, really no ill will, wish him well, he deserves to get paid, so it's time to part ways here.

Should be a good moneyball opportunity. Cheap 3-4 run stuffer (with more typical length) + increase in Dre’Mont’s pass rush opportunities should give you at least 80% of Shelby’s overall production at 30% of the cost.

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2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Should be a good moneyball opportunity. Cheap 3-4 run stuffer (with more typical length) + increase in Dre’Mont’s pass rush opportunities should give you at least 80% of Shelby’s overall production at 30% of the cost.

Yeah, I definitely don't think we want to just have Purcell in there to go with rookies and 2nd year guys (even if Jones surged up in 2H and was impressive in doing so), but Purcell's acquisition also showed what happened when we found depth that was a good scheme fit.   I imagine something similar happens if we don't get Wolfe on a discount - I would be floored if DEN was the highest bidder on Harris, so I've pretty much mentally pencilled him elsewhere.

Edited by Broncofan

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Hello Everyone,

Can anyone tell me more about Vic Fangio's defense? Scheme, most important roles, etc.

Also, who are players the Broncos could be cutting this offseason?

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On 1/25/2020 at 8:45 PM, 1234567 said:

https://predominantlyorange.com/2020/01/24/broncos-buzz-lightyear-learn-sheriff/

I really like this. I've always said, once a Bronco, always a Bronco. Players never truly leave this team, and I think its great that PFM still views himself as one of us. He always seems eager to help out when he can.

It's crazy how fast fortunes can change in the NFL. Still dissapointed Rich got canned thought he did a great job with Drew Lock.

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5 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

It's crazy how fast fortunes can change in the NFL. Still dissapointed Rich got canned thought he did a great job with Drew Lock.

Yeah, a guy can make an argument either way in regards to Scangs' prowess as an OC. But there is little debate when it comes to his ability to coach up a quarterback. Lock went from looking completely overwhelmed in the pre-season to a guy who looks like a first round draft pick. From an offensive X's and O'x standpoint, bringing in Shurmur was a solid move. But from a developmental point of view for Lock, I'm not 100% sold. Time will tell on that one; although Shurmur has a pretty impressive resume with QB development as well. 

Edited by 1234567

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3 hours ago, 1234567 said:

 But there is little debate when it comes to his ability to coach up a quarterback. Lock went from looking completely overwhelmed in the pre-season to a guy who looks like a first round draft pick. But from a developmental point of view for Lock, I'm not 100% sold. Time will tell on that one; although Shurmur has a pretty impressive resume with QB development as well. 

I rely pretty heavily on input from this forum.

Early reports last year on Lock from this forum were abysmal.  His performances were awful and he didn’t look like he belonged in the NFL. Terrible footwork, lousy pocket presence……………… There were lots more comments here but I can’t remember one positive.

That’s why I was all for letting him sit until the last game or two. No sense putting him in if he can’t play the game.

Boy was I wrong! If after his 5 game performance you would have told me we drafted him at 10 I’d tell you we got a steal.

Everything else aside, systems, play calling, whatever really take a back seat to QB development in this case.  Whatever it was McCarthy and Scangarello were doing with Lock they should have just kept doing it. His improvement was astounding.

Quite a high bar for our replacement coaches. Denver fans have never been the most forgiving and if Lock stumbles out of the gate next season there will be hell to pay and rightfully so.

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