Team Building the FUTURE is now!

[germ-x]

CB is interesting for Denver.  If they don’t resign Harris (and I don’t think they will, he’s coming off the worst year of his career, seems to want to go to the highest bidder, and has made comments about not being used correctly under Fangio) it would mean Denver likely needs to add 2 starting caliber outside CBs this offseason.  If Bausby has a clean bill of health, then I think he’s capable of manning 1 starting spot, but considering he was paralyzed for 30 minutes and put on IR.....it’s hard for me to bank on him returning or being the same if he does.

[grizmo78]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

CB is interesting for Denver.  If they don’t resign Harris (and I don’t think they will, he’s coming off the worst year of his career, seems to want to go to the highest bidder, and has made comments about not being used correctly under Fangio) it would mean Denver likely needs to add 2 starting caliber outside CBs this offseason.  If Bausby has a clean bill of health, then I think he’s capable of manning 1 starting spot, but considering he was paralyzed for 30 minutes and put on IR.....it’s hard for me to bank on him returning or being the same if he does.

Unfortunately this is turning out to be a poor year to need a corner. Best fit in FA is probably James Bradberry but I can’t imagine Carolina wouldn’t at least tag him.  Past him is Byron Jones who will probably get the biggest pay day. Logan Ryan is probably #3 but is best as a slot guy which should be covered by Callahan. Most realistic option is maybe Eli Apple who failed out of NY but played pretty well for the saints this year. Then we tell into a lot of failed guys like Trae Waynes and Kendall Fuller. 

 

In the draft Okudah is the only bonafide guy. I’m not a fan of too many after him and think they’ll be over drafted, like Fulton, Terrell, Hall, Diggs. Only other corner that is intruguing as a potential starter is maybe Jeff gladney with a trade down from 15. 

 

On the plus side, I think Fangio showed his scheme can hold up decently without great corners and we have some developmental pieces that are intriguing. We might have to tread water at corner this year and hope next year gives us a better opportunity at a top guy, or that a developmental guy pops. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

I really like Damon Arnette. Every time I went to watch Okudah it was arnette that caught my eye. Not the physical presence that Okudah is but he may end up being the better pro. He’s alway making the right read in zone and is sticky enough to play off man. Should be available in the late second early third.

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

I really like Damon Arnette. Every time I went to watch Okudah it was arnette that caught my eye. Not the physical presence that Okudah is but he may end up being the better pro. He’s alway making the right read in zone and is sticky enough to play off man. Should be available in the late second early third.

Need to watch these guys, but from what I’ve read on him I don’t disagree on Arnette.  I’ve also read he’s as good a run defending CB as there is in the draft.  

Gladney is another CB that (from what I’ve read) is physical, aggressive vs the run, and has the athletic traits to be an excellent outside CB.

[DiehardBronxFan]

5 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I rely pretty heavily on input from this forum.

Early reports last year on Lock from this forum were abysmal.  His performances were awful and he didn’t look like he belonged in the NFL. Terrible footwork, lousy pocket presence……………… There were lots more comments here but I can’t remember one positive.

That’s why I was all for letting him sit until the last game or two. No sense putting him in if he can’t play the game.

Boy was I wrong! If after his 5 game performance you would have told me we drafted him at 10 I’d tell you we got a steal.

Everything else aside, systems, play calling, whatever really take a back seat to QB development in this case.  Whatever it was McCarthy and Scangarello were doing with Lock they should have just kept doing it. His improvement was astounding.

Quite a high bar for our replacement coaches. Denver fans have never been the most forgiving and if Lock stumbles out of the gate next season there will be hell to pay and rightfully so.

Not sue if you saw much of a Daniel Jones last year, but - other than the fumbles - he was pretty darn impressive. Certainly outperformed Locke.  We’re getting the guys that coached him.😉

[AKRNA]

28 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

Not sue if you saw much of a Daniel Jones last year, but - other than the fumbles - he was pretty darn impressive. Certainly outperformed Locke.  We’re getting the guys that coached him.😉

What I've read about Shurmer and Shula is impressive, no argument there.  I'm just holding my breath. Scangarello / Mcarthy are a pretty tough act to follow though. They did an amazing job with Lock.

I'm glad Shurmer has left most of the staff intact. That's a relief. 

One interesting dynamic will be to see how we do with 3 ex NFL HC's on staff. If we do well this year we could lose all 3. Losing Munchak is probably a given but I feel pretty good with Kuper as a replacement. Losing Shula/Shurmer would be a real blow, every year a new OC and QB coach, but entirely possible. 

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

What I've read about Shurmer and Shula is impressive, no argument there.  I'm just holding my breath. Scangarello / Mcarthy are a pretty tough act to follow though. They did an amazing job with Lock.

I'm glad Shurmer has left most of the staff intact. That's a relief. 

One interesting dynamic will be to see how we do with 3 ex NFL HC's on staff. If we do well this year we could lose all 3. Losing Munchak is probably a given but I feel pretty good with Kuper as a replacement. Losing Shula/Shurmer would be a real blow, every year a new OC and QB coach, but entirely possible. 

Where’s Munchak going? Shurmur’s certainly not going anywhere after two 9-24 HC stints. 

[broncos67]

8 hours ago, AKRNA said:

What I've read about Shurmer and Shula is impressive, no argument there.  I'm just holding my breath. Scangarello / Mcarthy are a pretty tough act to follow though. They did an amazing job with Lock.

I'm glad Shurmer has left most of the staff intact. That's a relief. 

One interesting dynamic will be to see how we do with 3 ex NFL HC's on staff. If we do well this year we could lose all 3. Losing Munchak is probably a given but I feel pretty good with Kuper as a replacement. Losing Shula/Shurmer would be a real blow, every year a new OC and QB coach, but entirely possible. 

I don't think Munchak or Shurmur are going anywhere quickly. I agree, Lock did well under Scangarello/McCartney, but I also think it's pretty much agreed that Shurmur and Shula are better/more effective coaches, as evidenced by the performance jump of offenses they took over. Clear to me Fangio and the staff weren't on the same page. May not have had an impact in Year 1, but certainly could have been an issue in Year 2.

[Broncofan]

10 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Where’s Munchak going? Shurmur’s certainly not going anywhere after two 9-24 HC stints. 

Yeah, Munchak said his move to DEN was solely about family, with his daughter & grandchildren in DEN, and other daughter in LA, too.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/15/mike-munchak-says-move-to-denver-was-only-about-family/

Unless the family situation changes, it seems that he's here for as long as he wants...and the org wants him.  He took the OL coach position to be with family here, I don't see that changing just because Shurmur's here.   Frankly, it's where he excels, and he's probably arrived at that conclusion as well.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Broncofan

[germ-x]

I realize Fangio’s match zone concepts help mask some man coverage deficiencies, but in a division with Tyreek Hill, Keenan Allen, and the Raiders likely taking Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, I don’t like the idea of thinking the scheme is so good that it can be an almost revolving door at CB.

 

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, Munchak said his move to DEN was solely about family, with his daughter & grandchildren in DEN, and other daughter in LA, too.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/15/mike-munchak-says-move-to-denver-was-only-about-family/

Unless the family situation changes, it seems that he's here for as long as he wants...and the org wants him.  He took the OL coach position to be with family here, I don't see that changing just because Shurmur's here.   Frankly, it's where he excels, and he's probably arrived at that conclusion as well.

I guess it’s possible Munchak finds another HC gig, as it was only last year he almost got this one. I don’t think it’s likely. I don’t think there’s any chance in Shurmur’s case, you cannot sell your fan-base on Pat Shurmur leading your team after his two failed stints.

I don’t really understand the argument. If Rich was the OC some of his supporters believe him to be, he’s far more likely to be poached for a HC position after 2020 than two time retread Shurmur and an offensive line coach. The concern for Shurmur doing well and leaving is an admission that this is an upgrade. 

 

[BroncoBruin]

45 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I realize Fangio’s match zone concepts help mask some man coverage deficiencies, but in a division with Tyreek Hill, Keenan Allen, and the Raiders likely taking Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, I don’t like the idea of thinking the scheme is so good that it can be an almost revolving door at CB.

 

Vic’s actions speak loudly here. Isaac Yiadom, Duke Dawson and Davontae Harris all benched at different points. They know they need players.

[AKRNA]

12 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Where’s Munchak going? Shurmur’s certainly not going anywhere after two 9-24 HC stints. 

Haven't got a clue. Just opinion and speculation.

Enjoy the off season.

[BroncoBruin]

30 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Haven't got a clue. Just opinion and speculation.

Enjoy the off season.

You as well. I’d be stunned if either Shurmur or Munchak aren’t here in 2021. Shurmur probably never interviews for a HC job again. You can’t sell 18-46. If you can’t get the renowned play-caller HC like Shanahan, Reid or Payton, having the veteran OC with no potential HC prospects is the best situation you can have. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

I realize Fangio’s match zone concepts help mask some man coverage deficiencies, but in a division with Tyreek Hill, Keenan Allen, and the Raiders likely taking Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs, I don’t like the idea of thinking the scheme is so good that it can be an almost revolving door at CB.

 

To be clear, I don't think Fangio sees CB as a disposable position - but rather, what he looks for in a skill set is more devalued in today's NFL.   No one would say "no thanks" to a CB with blanket-cover skills - but Fangio wants a zone-scheme CB who is a sure tackler, can cover but most importantly, read the QB's eyes and O formation and jump routes / plays with eyes on the pocket on a lot of the pass downs.   Rather than the guy who just takes on a star WR and follows him everywhere.   Think more of a Sherman-type than a Revis-type at their peak.

Because the zone-scheme friendly CB skills are more devalued, it offers the chance to find future starters at a much lower cost/premium.    That's my main point on CB & this draft - and it meshes especially well in 2020's draft class, because there aren't a lot of top 50 talents at CB.    I do think Bausby shows very clear top 3 potential - but man, that injury is not one we can rely on a return.   

I do think Elway will both hit FA & the draft for CB depth - but it's not a great position to find an impact guy either at top dollar in FA, or in Rd 1-2 in the draft.    I agree with the idea of looking for value in FA (Kendall Fuller is one name that's intriguing), and definitely hitting CB with one of our Rd3-4 picks.    It's just not a year where we're likely finding a big FA or early draft solution.  There isn't a Tre'Davius White or Jaire Alexander or Kyle Fuller type guy IMO this year that would be worth taking in the 20's range, let alone the 15 spot.    Fuller shows that if there's a guy who fits the scheme, Fangio isn't afraid to advocate to go early - but you can also find guys who fit with a lower price tag, because those skills don't get premium value come Draft Day (or even in FA - Prince Amukamara being a prime example of this, getting the 1-year prove it deal off his time in JAX).

Doesn't mean we can't go early for CB in future years - but the team will be hopefully in better position to justify a big CB spend $/draft-capital wise, this offseason it comes off as a HUGE reach based on need, where the talent/value isn't there.  For a team that's not quite finished our rebuild, keep acquiring young talent with 2021+ potential, and if we find a guy who helps now, great.  But a big $ or early round spend on CB doesn't seem wise at all, given our available choices.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Broncofan