Team Building the FUTURE is now!

[thebestever6]

11 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Somewhere in the 10-12 million range. That's not happening.

If they can get a 5th for him, they'll be thrilled. 

If they don't go tackle in free agency and they hold off till round 2 I can see it under those scenarios only simply because you just have Juwan James as sunk resources 2020 along the oline as of right now.

Also it's dependent upon free agent moves and trades. The odds of Bolles being on this roster in 2020 is about 30% in my mind.

Edited November 7, 2019 by thebestever6

[broncos67]

They will, in no form or fashion, pick up his 5th year option. I would eat my shoe if they do. Bolles will play out his contract here because a) even as bad as he is, he's probably worth more to us than he would be to someone else. Why would any team trade draft capital for a 28 y/o penalty magnet?Just draft a 22 y/o and develop him if that's your long-term aim.. Someone may sign Bolles as a FA swing tackle, but I don't see anyone paying picks to get him.

Denver needs an OT in the draft. Why? The FA options are limited and we've spent a ton on these guys already who don't work out. Denver passed up higher upside guys (would have loved Ty Nsekhe- sp?) as an example, to pay big bucks to other players. Above average OTs rarely hit the market because teams know how valuable they are in an ever changing NFL. James is an exception in that injuries are his kryptonite, but the guy has been good when healthy. Elway needs a cost controlled OT that doesn't suck like Bolles. I'm convinced half the reason he took Bolles was because he was a nasty SOB and played football at Utah (geographic relevance to Denver). I didn't like Ramczyk as much as Cam Robinson, but I think everyone like both of them ahead of Bolles. 

We need to know where it makes sense to have cost controlled guys- QB, OT, CB are those positions. 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I'm convinced half the reason he took Bolles was because he was a nasty SOB and played football at Utah (geographic relevance to Denver). I didn't like Ramczyk as much as Cam Robinson, but I think everyone like both of them ahead of Bolles. 

My theory on why he liked Bolles were his tools clearly and bc Left tackles hold their value as long as they're somewhat decent.(age wasn't a factor)

Look at Duane Brown or trent Williams. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by thebestever6

[Broncofan]

9 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

They will, in no form or fashion, pick up his 5th year option. I would eat my shoe if they do. Bolles will play out his contract here because a) even as bad as he is, he's probably worth more to us than he would be to someone else. Why would any team trade draft capital for a 28 y/o penalty magnet?Just draft a 22 y/o and develop him if that's your long-term aim.. Someone may sign Bolles as a FA swing tackle, but I don't see anyone paying picks to get him.

Denver needs an OT in the draft. Why? The FA options are limited and we've spent a ton on these guys already who don't work out. Denver passed up higher upside guys (would have loved Ty Nsekhe- sp?) as an example, to pay big bucks to other players. Above average OTs rarely hit the market because teams know how valuable they are in an ever changing NFL. James is an exception in that injuries are his kryptonite, but the guy has been good when healthy. Elway needs a cost controlled OT that doesn't suck like Bolles. I'm convinced half the reason he took Bolles was because he was a nasty SOB and played football at Utah (geographic relevance to Denver). I didn't like Ramczyk as much as Cam Robinson, but I think everyone like both of them ahead of Bolles. 

We need to know where it makes sense to have cost controlled guys- QB, OT, CB are those positions. 

The thing on both Ramczyk and Robinson - both were successful in meat grinder schedules, and both successful early in their careers.   And both 3+ years younger than Bolles.  Such a SMH pick from Day 1.   And again, the real butterfly effect move - Elway deciding he didn't want to go after Andrew Whitworth, specifically because of age (his exact statement).   Remember the Rams were hapless going into 2017 and McVay being unknown, and Whitworth said he'd play anywhere for a contender, so coming off a 9-7 season, we'd have looked just as, if not more attractive.   

We get a LT in Whitworth, pretty much guarantee Ramczyk/Robinson's polish as lock-down RT's (and Ramczyk has played LT well) would have been a factor if Elway wasn't so hell-bent on finding LT.    He went after Ron Leary & Menelik Watson for RT instead, so that meant LT was a need-based pick, instead of taking the best T talents.    Oh well.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Broncofan

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

My theory on why he liked Bolles were his tools clearly and bc Left tackles hold their value as long as they're somewhat decent.(age wasn't a factor)

He liked Bolles because he thought his body and attitude were NFL ready, and Elway believed we were contenders needing a NFL ready guy.

It was always a horribly, horrible pick. Bolles was like 25 and barely knew how to play the game. Its like Elway assumed a higher age meant more NFL ready. It was stupid.

 

Quote

We get a LT in Whitworth, pretty much guarantee Ramczyk/Robinson's polish as lock-down RT's (and Ramczyk has played LT well) would have been a factor if Elway wasn't so hell-bent on finding LT.    He went after Ron Leary & Menelik Watson for RT instead, so that meant LT was a need-based pick, instead of taking the best T talents.    Oh well.

The trajectory of this entire organization would have been different if we signed Whitworth and drafted Ram or Rob. We would be in a much, much better place right now.

Edited November 7, 2019 by BroncosFan2010

[BroncoBruin]

The front office had Ramczyk higher on their board. It was Mike McCoy, fired six months later, who pounded the table for Garett.

Maybe not let terrible coaches pick your players. 

[jolly red giant]

Saw this on MHR - and it demonstrates how bad the drafts have been - and we didn't even pick some of these guys

 

Starting on defence we have -

2 first round picks - Miller and Jackson

1 second round - Wolfe

1 third round - Simmons

1 fifth round - D. Harris

1 seventh round - S. Harris

5 UDFAs - CHJ, Purcell, Reid, Johnson and Davis.

 

On offence 

2 first round - Bolles and Fant

2 second round - Sutton and Risner

1 fourth round - Hamilton

1 fifth round - McGovern

2 sixth round - Allen and Janovich

3 UDFAs - Lindsay, Leary and Wilkinson

 

Of 22 starters - we have 4 first rounders (we drafted 3) - 3 second rounders - 1 third round - 1 fourth round - 2 fifth round (we drafted 1) - 2 sixth round (we drafted 1) - 1 seventh round (we didn't draft) - and 8 UDFAs.

Out of the 22 current starters Elway managed to draft 10 of them - and only 7 of them in the first 3 rounds.

[thebestever6]

19 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

He liked Bolles because he thought his body and attitude were NFL ready, and Elway believed we were contenders needing a NFL ready guy.

It was always a horribly, horrible pick. Bolles was like 25 and barely knew how to play the game. Its like Elway assumed a higher age meant more NFL ready. It was stupid.

He's a bust so far no doubt about that. Once we're out of playoff contention and James comes back I'd try him at guard and that would determine if he's in the teams plans or not.(5th year option)

He reminds me of Logan Mankins lol he might be a plus starter at guard.

I didn't hate the Bolles pick I hated that he didn't trade down for the 3 like @Broncofan the pick was a sound investment given that they were trying to salvage scrub Lynch's career.

Edited November 7, 2019 by thebestever6

[jolly red giant]

15 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

The trajectory of this entire organization would have been different if we signed Whitworth and drafted Ram or Rob. We would be in a much, much better place right now.

Yes we would - and it is worth noting that practically everyone on here argued that at the time - it was utterly daft that Elway dismissed Whitworth because he was too old.

[thebestever6]

8 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

Out of the 22 current starters Elway managed to draft 10 of them - and only 7 of them in the first 3 rounds.

His day 1 and 2 drafting have left a lot to be desired specifically in 2017 the Langley and Henderson picks. 

When are we gonna harp on Bill Kollar? Adam Gotsis blowssss lol he was banging the table for him

Edited November 7, 2019 by thebestever6

[BroncoBruin]

13 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

He's a bust so far no doubt about that. Once we're out of playoff contention and James comes back I'd try him at guard and that would determine if he's in the teams plans or not.(5th year option)

He reminds me of Logan Mankins lol he might be a plus starter at guard.

I didn't hate the Bolles pick I hated that he didn't trade down for the 3 like @Broncofan the pick was a sound investment given that they were trying to salvage scrub Lynch's career.

Bolles would make an even worse guard than a tackle. Bolles' athleticism is really all he has going for him. Interior defensive linemen would just run him over. 

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, BroncoBruin said:

Bolles would make an even worse guard than a tackle. Bolles' athleticism is really all he has going for him. Interior defensive linemen would just run him over. 

Well he's gonna have to get a stronger base than over this offseason ala the incredible bulk when he revived his career in INDY. He has the mentality for a guard.

[BroncoBruin]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Well he's gonna have to get a stronger base than over this offseason ala the incredible bulk when he revived his career in INDY. He has the mentality for a guard.

He has the mentality for playing Call of Duty with Paxton Lynch all day. They can try him I guess. He'll suck anywhere though. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

They will, in no form or fashion, pick up his 5th year option. I would eat my shoe if they do. Bolles will play out his contract here because a) even as bad as he is, he's probably worth more to us than he would be to someone else. Why would any team trade draft capital for a 28 y/o penalty magnet?Just draft a 22 y/o and develop him if that's your long-term aim.. Someone may sign Bolles as a FA swing tackle, but I don't see anyone paying picks to get him.

Denver needs an OT in the draft. Why? The FA options are limited and we've spent a ton on these guys already who don't work out. Denver passed up higher upside guys (would have loved Ty Nsekhe- sp?) as an example, to pay big bucks to other players. Above average OTs rarely hit the market because teams know how valuable they are in an ever changing NFL. James is an exception in that injuries are his kryptonite, but the guy has been good when healthy. Elway needs a cost controlled OT that doesn't suck like Bolles. I'm convinced half the reason he took Bolles was because he was a nasty SOB and played football at Utah (geographic relevance to Denver). I didn't like Ramczyk as much as Cam Robinson, but I think everyone like both of them ahead of Bolles. 

We need to know where it makes sense to have cost controlled guys- QB, OT, CB are those positions. 

I agree with most of this. I think the motivating factor for Elway regarding Bolles was a) his nastiness which you point out and his raw physical tools. No one ever said Bolles lacks the physical skills to play LT, even at a very high level, in the NFL. The problem is, and always has been, between the ears with him. The other thing is why do you want a nasty LT? You want a nasty DT or even nasty OGs but LT is a thinking man's position, one of nuance and understanding coupled with physical tools to handle edge rushers and get out in space in the run game. 

The draft is the ideal place to find the next LT. The good ones don't hit the market and I'd rather draft a potential franchise LT with our 1st round pick than trade it to Washington for Williams who will be a) much, much, much more expensive and b) approaching the downside of his career. That said, trading for Williams would be a "win now" move so there is a chance we go that way, which would just infuriate me. 

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

My theory on why he liked Bolles were his tools clearly and bc Left tackles hold their value as long as they're somewhat decent.(age wasn't a factor)

Look at Duane Brown or trent Williams. 

What tools? He had no tools. He was raw, but he was nasty, and this was the offseason after Elway complained about how soft everyone was. He also has a propensity to look at local talent. Elway, I can promise you, was not considering the long-term value retention of the Bolles pick. We had no OT, his hand was forced, and the pick was telegraphed. I'm sure he talked himself into it.