.Buzz Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Good write up here by Shipley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 I'm just not really that into investing our most important asset in a CB tbh. They can be pretty hit or miss, and i think you can find "value" with "scheme fit" options elsewhere. It's back to the whole Jalen thing, where as good as he could be...it's just not a position that i see swinging a team's fortunes all that much. An elite CB is more of a "luxury item" to me. It's the Pass Rushers that really make or break a defense imo, and where it's so hard to find that real "bargain" or "value" player. They tend to come at a real premium, and teams don't let good ones in their prime go very often (unless they're stupid and mishandle situations until they basically force their way out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I'm just not really that into investing our most important asset in a CB tbh. They can be pretty hit or miss, and i think you can find "value" with "scheme fit" options elsewhere. It's back to the whole Jalen thing, where as good as he could be...it's just not a position that i see swinging a team's fortunes all that much. An elite CB is more of a "luxury item" to me. It's the Pass Rushers that really make or break a defense imo, and where it's so hard to find that real "bargain" or "value" player. They tend to come at a real premium, and teams don't let good ones in their prime go very often (unless they're stupid and mishandle situations until they basically force their way out). Frank Clark, Dee Ford, and Clowney are just a few notable ones who teams were fine letting go/moving on from too. I think an edge rusher is more important than a CB, but I think a CB is up in the top 3-4 most important. Ultimately wins and losses are predicated on having an average QB. You can go up or down from there depending on the team around him/just how good the QB is. We haven't had average QB play (Minshew had his spurts of it though), so wins and losses aren't going to be there even if you added Donald/Watt, etc. these past couple years. I'd much rather get a CB than a 3T/OL (although LT may beat CB, that's the close one for me). I feel like an interior pass rusher can be easier to find than a legit elite corner, but that may just be me. (Again, not saying I view Henderson over Kinlaw/Brown, but if it were Okudah or those two I probably lean Okudah). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Wirfs is the type of OL I do feel like Dave likes as mentioned in here... Wonder if our draft philosophy will change very much with Marrone and co. having a bigger voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 4 hours ago, .Buzz said: Wirfs is the type of OL I do feel like Dave likes as mentioned in here... Wonder if our draft philosophy will change very much with Marrone and co. having a bigger voice. i think Marrone would cry happy tears if he got a guy like Becton to mold. he certainly fits the size and athleticism i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 3:46 PM, .Buzz said: Frank Clark, Dee Ford, and Clowney are just a few notable ones who teams were fine letting go/moving on from too. I think an edge rusher is more important than a CB, but I think a CB is up in the top 3-4 most important. Ultimately wins and losses are predicated on having an average QB. You can go up or down from there depending on the team around him/just how good the QB is. We haven't had average QB play (Minshew had his spurts of it though), so wins and losses aren't going to be there even if you added Donald/Watt, etc. these past couple years. I'd much rather get a CB than a 3T/OL (although LT may beat CB, that's the close one for me). I feel like an interior pass rusher can be easier to find than a legit elite corner, but that may just be me. (Again, not saying I view Henderson over Kinlaw/Brown, but if it were Okudah or those two I probably lean Okudah). pretty sure the 1st 3 players on 99% of the big boards go: Burrows Young Okudah tho i could see a team flip young and okudah depending on needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 14 hours ago, .Buzz said: Wirfs is the type of OL I do feel like Dave likes as mentioned in here... Wonder if our draft philosophy will change very much with Marrone and co. having a bigger voice. Dave loved Luke Joeckel. Who gives a single solitary **** what Dave likes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tugboat said: Dave loved Luke Joeckel. Who gives a single solitary **** what Dave likes? Dude was a consensus top 2-3 guy. Everyone loved Joeckel. Sucks he was a bust but... Edited March 11, 2020 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Dude was a consensus top 2-3 guy. Everyone loved Joeckel. Sucks he was a bust but... That means what exactly? Literally anybody could've made an equally bad pick? That's not good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Tugboat said: That means what exactly? Literally anybody could've made an equally bad pick? That's not good though. Never said it was, but acting like his eye for OL is garbage because a consensus top pick in the draft busted. He was top OL on a lot of people's boards. Does that mean all the GMs don't have an eye for talent since if they had the choice they'd have done the same thing? Edited March 11, 2020 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, .Buzz said: Never said it was, but acting like his eye for OL is garbage because a consensus top pick in the draft busted. He was top OL on a lot of people's boards. Does that mean all the GMs don't have an eye for talent since if they had the choice they'd have done the same thing? Literally no GMs have been given the leniency Dave has. Most GMs **** up that many times, they get the boot. He got lucky in that Coughlin came along and very temporarily made things look like the team wasn't trash. But we've already rightfully tossed Tom under the bus. It comes right back down to Caldwell's team. Which...he's been the GM of forever. Through...what's his dismal *** record now? You can't blame Coughlin for all of that craptastic drafting and horrific team building. Caldwell has had forever to build a good team, and he's built a ****ty one instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tugboat said: Literally no GMs have been given the leniency Dave has. Most GMs **** up that many times, they get the boot. He got lucky in that Coughlin came along and very temporarily made things look like the team wasn't trash. But we've already rightfully tossed Tom under the bus. It comes right back down to Caldwell's team. Which...he's been the GM of forever. Through...what's his dismal *** record now? You can't blame Coughlin for all of that craptastic drafting and horrific team building. Caldwell has had forever to build a good team, and he's built a ****ty one instead. That's not the conversation/topic we're talking about. I'm not here saying he should be GM. I said I wanted everyone gone after 2018 and again in October of last year. I'm saying him, along with a slew of other GMs (if not most), all had Joeckel as a top rated player in that draft. Coughlin was there for the letting go of ARob (he didn't value WRs/pissed off ARob as you can see with tweets), is about to run Yan out of town. Jettisoned Jalen, doubled down on Bortles from an outside perspective, then paid Foles a deal due to the fact he wanted him to feel like he was the guy, along with drafting Fournette/a RB top 5. Idk if Caldwell was behind all the above outside of Bortles, and his drafts was awful in 2013, but truthfully from a pure draft perspective I don't see him any worse than most as far as hit/miss rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) As far as pure drafts go (not roster building, not signing certain people and letting go of others), I feel like Dave has been fairly solid besides his first draft in 2013. Compare Jaguars drafts to anyone outside of KC, Dallas, Baltimore, and SF and we're right there. The reason we are where we sit isn't because of bad drafting, its because of letting the talent we drafted walk/trade them and failing to find a franchise QB (which yes, is part of drafting, but we aren't taking a QB this year so I don't care that Dave clearly doesn't have a great eye for QBs). Edited March 11, 2020 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 I feel like we always get mocked Florida players because they play close to Jacksonville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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