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VanS

If you didn't think Joe Burrow was a 1st rounder last year, why would you think he's one this year?

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I want Burrow to go to the Bengals. Young offensive mind in Taylor, weapons in Mixon, Bernard, Green, Boyd, and Ross. Like Burrow would thrive and help turn that team around. I dont want him going to the Dolphins. 

Ill say that Burrow certainly deserves to be in the conversation for the top pick in the draft. He has everything you look for in a QB. I dont care what people once thought about him. He is what he is now. 

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1/2 Burrow/Tua


3/4/5 Eason/Herbert/Love

 

 

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Wasn’t impressed by Burrow in that game against Alabama. The stats look better than what I see his skillset allowing him to accomplish in the NFL. I saw average arm strength, average athleticism, and good decision making.

I don’t scout positions my team doesn’t need so I don’t plan to watch many other games of his, but from what I’ve seen I see a 2nd/3rd round prospect off ability.

I’m sure the hype will push him much higher, but I would put him there. I see an Andy Dalton level player.

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15 hours ago, jrry32 said:

There is nothing good about the arguments you are making. You're ignoring the film of Burrow that doesn't confirm your preconceived notions, and you feel vindicated in doing that because of Baker Mayfield? Wow.

So when it comes to prospects I stick to my initial impressions of their talent and don't sway back and forth to short term results whether good or bad.  For someone to show me he isn't what I originally thought he would need to show long term success or failure.  I just think most people love to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon because they aren't confident in their evaluation method. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, VanS said:

So when it comes to prospects I stick to my initial impressions of their talent and don't sway back and forth to short term results whether good or bad.  For someone to show me he isn't what I originally thought he would need to show long term success or failure.  I just think most people love to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon because they aren't confident in their evaluation method. 

 

 

I'm quite confident in my evaluation because I don't ignore evidence contrary to my initial impression.

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23 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'm quite confident in my evaluation because I don't ignore evidence contrary to my initial impression.

So which one is it?  Is Mayfield great or trash?  Is Burrow a nobody or the 1st overall pick?

I'm not saying which one is right or wrong.  Time will ultimately tell that.  I just don't get why people act like what is happening in the present is the ultimate truth.

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3 minutes ago, VanS said:

So which one is it?  Is Mayfield great or trash?  Is Burrow a nobody or the 1st overall pick?

I'm not saying which one is right or wrong.  Time will ultimately tell that.  I just don't get why people act like what is happening in the present is the ultimate truth.

Neither. Neither. Do you seriously not recognize anything but extremes?

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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Neither. Neither. Do you seriously not recognize anything but extremes?

Apparently most people think that way since at this time last year Mayfield was considered a stud and Burrow a nobody.  Now its the reverse.

Maybe you don't hop on the hype/hate roller coaster but most people do.

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20 hours ago, VanS said:

Production changes from year to year.  Traits don't.  At least not this much (i.e. taking a guy from UFA to the #1 overall pick).  I'm not saying a player can't improve from one year to the next.  I'm just saying we typically don't see these jumps happen from a player's redshirt junior to redshirt senior year.   College athletes typically make their biggest jumps from their first to second year in college.

You're usually good for at least one extreme take per season.  Didn't think this was going to be the one you'd take.  He's in his second full year as a starting QB.  His first two seasons he threw a total of 39 passes.  In his first season at LSU (in an archaic offense), he threw 379 times.  That's nearly 10 times as many as the previous year.  There were enough people who thought he had the tools to potentially be a FRP, but they wanted to see the jump in production like he's shown this year.  Trying to pretend that this was a guy who was mediocre for ~3 years and all of a sudden the light is clicking seems like a crazy hill to die on.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Wasn’t impressed by Burrow in that game against Alabama. The stats look better than what I see his skillset allowing him to accomplish in the NFL. I saw average arm strength, average athleticism, and good decision making.

I don’t scout positions my team doesn’t need so I don’t plan to watch many other games of his, but from what I’ve seen I see a 2nd/3rd round prospect off ability.

I’m sure the hype will push him much higher, but I would put him there. I see an Andy Dalton level player.

I agree.

Nothing about Burrow is exceptional.  Its possible he can be an adequate NFL starter.  But the hype because he's having a great season as an almost 23 year old redshirt senior makes no sense.

People just love to be prisoner of the moment.

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46 minutes ago, VanS said:

So when it comes to prospects I stick to my initial impressions of their talent and don't sway back and forth to short term results whether good or bad.  For someone to show me he isn't what I originally thought he would need to show long term success or failure.  I just think most people love to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon because they aren't confident in their evaluation method.

So you'd rather be wrong and stick to your initial impressions than be right?  Again, I'm legitimately shocked.

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1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Wasn’t impressed by Burrow in that game against Alabama. The stats look better than what I see his skillset allowing him to accomplish in the NFL. I saw average arm strength, average athleticism, and good decision making.

I don’t scout positions my team doesn’t need so I don’t plan to watch many other games of his, but from what I’ve seen I see a 2nd/3rd round prospect off ability.

I’m sure the hype will push him much higher, but I would put him there. I see an Andy Dalton level player.

Three of the four best QBs of the past 20 years (Brady, Brees, and Manning) had average arm strength and athleticism. Burrow was playing in a passing game developed off of Sean Payton's Gulf Coast Offense. He was getting the ball out quickly, making the correct decisions/reads, and throwing it accurately to all levels of the field. He also made the correct decision at the correct time when to scramble and pick up yardage, instead of holding the ball. And he was doing this against Nick Saban, who is a pretty good schemer. If you weren't impressed, I don't know what to say, man. The most important attributes for success aren't arm strength or athleticism. They're accuracy, mental acuity, and instincts in the pocket.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You're usually good for at least one extreme take per season.  Didn't think this was going to be the one you'd take.  He's in his second full year as a starting QB.  His first two seasons he threw a total of 39 passes.  In his first season at LSU (in an archaic offense), he threw 379 times.  That's nearly 10 times as many as the previous year.  There were enough people who thought he had the tools to potentially be a FRP, but they wanted to see the jump in production like he's shown this year.  Trying to pretend that this was a guy who was mediocre for ~3 years and all of a sudden the light is clicking seems like a crazy hill to die on.

I'm not that sure about this but how many successful NFL QBs don't start until their redshirt junior year at a school they didn't commit to out of high school?

If Burrow is an elite talent worthy of being a high 1st round pick then why couldn't he get playing time before he was a 22 year old redshirt junior?

Your take here also accentuates the issue with Burrow which is his late meteoric rise. 

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20 hours ago, jrry32 said:

 Frankly, Van, you're offering a ridiculous opinion.

There's something to be said for consistency!

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8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So you'd rather be wrong and stick to your initial impressions than be right?  Again, I'm legitimately shocked.

No.  I switch my opinion if a switch is warranted (i.e. my intial impression was wrong).  For example, I thought Courtland Sutton was a product of the SMU system and not a good enough athlete at the NFL level to duplicate the skills he showed in college.  I was very wrong and it took me just one preseason game last year to realize that.   I saw how explosive and athletic he looked on an NFL field and realized I was totally wrong.

However, what I don't do is just switch because a guy has a good season statistically.  Joe Burrow looks like the same guy he was last year.  It just looks like he's playing in a better system and the players around him have improved.  He doesn't look like he's markedly better.   Most people just assume better stats means a better player.  I don't.  I look only at talent.

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