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VanS

If you didn't think Joe Burrow was a 1st rounder last year, why would you think he's one this year?

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1 hour ago, VanS said:

I saw Teddy Bridgewater come in and lead the Saints to an undefeated record with Brees out.  I also remember when Brees was in San Diego and the Chargers used a 1st round pick on another QB three years after drafting him.

I think Sean Payton has been a bigger reason for Drew Brees success than Brees talent.

I thought you specifically mentioned accomplishments like wins were more of a team thing than a reflection of an individual in another thread? Payton is a good coach because he designs a system that maximizes his QB's strengths. Doesn't mean that anyone can do what Brees can do. You still have to have elite mental processing capabilities. 

Edited by Xenos

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1 hour ago, VanS said:

Oh I watched his throws and they looked pretty routine.  Many a QB could throw into the windows Burrow threw into against Alabama.

His running ability is what shined through IMO moreso than his passing ability.  He looks like he has nice instincts in the pockets when it comes to scrambling and enough athleticism to be a factor in desgined QB run plays. 

Any NFL QB can make 95% of the throws Brady makes. What they can't do is find and hit the open WR with the speed and precision that Brady does from play to play.

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I hadn't heard of Burrow except from this site. I watched the game yesterday and expected to see Bama destroy LSU. Bama is basically an NFL team in college. Bengals and Miami probably would lose to them. Skins too...When I saw Burrow, I saw an NFL QB. He looked the part and had IMO much less talent around him. He belonged on that stage and performed. He's making a case to be the #1 QB taken also because Tua is getting hurt a lot and might be considered an injury risk. I see Tua as a modern Steve Young who will grow with age. I think it all depends on system and the talent around them but I think they both can be successful in the NFL. If I had the #1 pick I'd got with Chase Young, not a QB.

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41 minutes ago, G said:

I hadn't heard of Burrow except from this site. I watched the game yesterday and expected to see Bama destroy LSU. Bama is basically an NFL team in college. Bengals and Miami probably would lose to them. Skins too...When I saw Burrow, I saw an NFL QB. He looked the part and had IMO much less talent around him. He belonged on that stage and performed. He's making a case to be the #1 QB taken also because Tua is getting hurt a lot and might be considered an injury risk. I see Tua as a modern Steve Young who will grow with age. I think it all depends on system and the talent around them but I think they both can be successful in the NFL. If I had the #1 pick I'd got with Chase Young, not a QB.

So much wrong here...lol People need to stop with that talk. No NFL team will lose to any college team. Please stop. 

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Maybe Van looked into his eyes and then he knew he is the same exact QB as last season?

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5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

If it's so routine, why aren't more QBs putting up similar numbers?  Your attempt at discrediting his production both in terms of statistics as well as what you're seeing him is mind boggling.  This isn't a guy that we were talking about an UDFA a year ago. We were talking about a guy who was a darkhorse FRP with a rather large caveat that he needed to have the production jump.  If I didn't know any better, you'd think we're talking about some G5 QB who has played mediocre until now.

Wait....what?   Are you seriously trying say people were talking about Joe Burrow as a potential 1st round pick LAST YEAR?  Da hell?

I mean I know folks like to exaggerate but this takes the cake.

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5 hours ago, Xenos said:

I thought you specifically mentioned accomplishments like wins were more of a team thing than a reflection of an individual in another thread? Payton is a good coach because he designs a system that maximizes his QB's strengths. Doesn't mean that anyone can do what Brees can do. You still have to have elite mental processing capabilities. 

All I know is Brees wasn't a Hall of Fame caliber before being paired with Sean Payton.  When he's not in a dome he tends to see his numbers fall.  And his physical tools aren't too impressive.  All that leads me to think he's helped more by the system than being the one that makes it.

Wins matter when you're the one carrying a team on your back like Lamar Jackson.  When your team doesn't miss a beat when you are out with injury then maybe you're not as important to those wins as we previously thought.  The Saints succeeding without Brees leads me to question just how good he really is.

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5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Any NFL QB can make 95% of the throws Brady makes. What they can't do is find and hit the open WR with the speed and precision that Brady does from play to play.

I know.  That's what makes Tom Brady special.  Are you saying this guy is Tom Brady?  

Sorry but there's only one Tom Brady.  I don't think its smart to use a high 1st round pick on a QB with mediocre physical tools hoping he becomes Brady-esque and destroys opponents pre-snap.  Remember it took Brady a while to mentally master the game.  I'd rather draft players with elite physical tools high in the draft than trying to hit on outliers. 

 

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27 minutes ago, VanS said:

I know.  That's what makes Tom Brady special.  Are you saying this guy is Tom Brady?  

Sorry but there's only one Tom Brady.  I don't think its smart to use a high 1st round pick on a QB with mediocre physical tools hoping he becomes Brady-esque and destroys opponents pre-snap.  Remember it took Brady a while to mentally master the game.  I'd rather draft players with elite physical tools high in the draft than trying to hit on outliers. 

 

Van, my point is apparent. Spare me the posturing.

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I think that if you like Joe Burrow, you're betting on his accuracy, ability to go through progressions, and his intangibles like leadership, work ethic, huddle presence, and ability to diagnose a defense.

He's got GOOD/GREAT accuracy, solid mechanics/footwork, a slightly above average arm with a quick release, is a plus athlete (albeit not great one), and a solid frame but nothing special at 6-3 215.

Physically, he's nothing special, and there's not ONE thing that he does that "wows" you in a toolbox department. I have no idea why, but I get a real "Kirk Cousins" vibe from him. 

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He's looking good for sure. Big win over Bama this weekend. I think at the very worst he's going in the 1st round of the draft. 

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5 hours ago, VanS said:

I know.  That's what makes Tom Brady special.  Are you saying this guy is Tom Brady?  

Sorry but there's only one Tom Brady.  I don't think its smart to use a high 1st round pick on a QB with mediocre physical tools hoping he becomes Brady-esque and destroys opponents pre-snap.  Remember it took Brady a while to mentally master the game.  I'd rather draft players with elite physical tools high in the draft than trying to hit on outliers. 

 

Question, do you think guys can develop mentally or with fundamentals later in college?  Burrow got a much better offensive mind in Brady to teach him how to better study, analyze defenses, and understand what he is seeing.  Also, it looks like his footwork is much improved over last year.  Plus, his throwing motion is tighter and quicker.

I think his improvements this year can be attributed to those three areas.  And I think that is what would push him into being a 1st rounder for me.

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16 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Wasn’t impressed by Burrow in that game against Alabama. The stats look better than what I see his skillset allowing him to accomplish in the NFL. I saw average arm strength, average athleticism, and good decision making.

I don’t scout positions my team doesn’t need so I don’t plan to watch many other games of his, but from what I’ve seen I see a 2nd/3rd round prospect off ability.

I’m sure the hype will push him much higher, but I would put him there. I see an Andy Dalton level player.

 

14 hours ago, VanS said:

No.  I switch my opinion if a switch is warranted (i.e. my intial impression was wrong).  For example, I thought Courtland Sutton was a product of the SMU system and not a good enough athlete at the NFL level to duplicate the skills he showed in college.  I was very wrong and it took me just one preseason game last year to realize that.   I saw how explosive and athletic he looked on an NFL field and realized I was totally wrong.

However, what I don't do is just switch because a guy has a good season statistically.  Joe Burrow looks like the same guy he was last year.  It just looks like he's playing in a better system and the players around him have improved.  He doesn't look like he's markedly better.   Most people just assume better stats means a better player.  I don't.  I look only at talent.

 

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He's won me over for sure,

- He processes information really well

- Has a really good grasps of defensive coverages

- Knows how to get out of bad plays and position the offense to get into more advantageous plays

- Elite accuracy/Anticipation

- Elite football I.Q. (Knows when teams are in man, and when no one is in the box to run and take free yards)

- Definitely a leader of men, but humble

 

He did a lot of these things last year but he's doing it at a higher level, and for one I thought it was a fluke but he is the real deal IMO. It just goes to show how much confidence can do for you

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Because people get better.

Sometimes they get a lot better.

 

This thread is silly. Who is the OP?

*checks OP*

 

oh, ok. That make sense.

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