If you didn't think Joe Burrow was a 1st rounder last year, why would you think he's one this year?

[VanS]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:59 AM, THE DUKE said:

Saw some tweets yesterday that underscored how special Burrow has been this year.  His completion on throws 10+ yards downfield is over 70% to lead the NCAA.  He's not just dinking and dunking balls, he's pushing it downfield and still completing passes at an elite rate.  Tua this year before the injury was at 57%

Its weird how stats are neccesary to impress some of yall.  If those numbers were never tracked would you still be touting Joe Burrow?  

You shouldn't need stats to know if a player is great.  True greatness should be readily apparent.  For example, those of us that believed in Lamar Jackson before the 2018 draft weren't sold on him doing what he's doing right now in the NFL based on his stats.  We saw greatness in the way he played on the field.  And it was apparent from his first collegiate game as a true freshmen against Auburn in 2015.  He looked like the next Michael Vick even then.

If Joe Burrow is as great as you think he is, then you should have seen it before this season.

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

Its weird how stats are neccesary to impress some of yall.  If those numbers were never tracked would you still be touting Joe Burrow?  

You shouldn't need stats to know if a player is great.  True greatness should be readily apparent.  For example, those of us that believed in Lamar Jackson before the 2018 draft weren't sold on him doing what he's doing right now in the NFL based on his stats.  We saw greatness in the way he played on the field.  And it was apparent from his first collegiate game as a true freshmen against Auburn in 2015.  He looked like the next Michael Vick even then.

If Joe Burrow is as great as you think he is, then you should have seen it before this season.

Get yourself to a hospital man. I think you may have a tumor in your brain. 

[oldman9er]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

If Joe Burrow is as great as you think he is, then you should have seen it before this season.

Or it could be that coaching actually matters? 

If you have yet to be informed, Joe Brady came to LSU, and turned that blah pass game of 2018 into something excellent in 2019.

Been watching Burrow for the last two years. He was just okay last year, and most figured it was just typical blah LSU pass game. QBs really can be held back due to circumstances outside of themselves, did you know? 

This season, adding Coach Brady + then Burrow developing along with his teammates has shown a remarkable turnaround. Burrow's dad was a player and coach, and pro teams will like this as well. He's sharp and highly driven to succeeding. 

I don't understand this particular battle of yours. It seems to revolve around his 1-yr only success, but it's important to at least dig into the reasons for that, if to be fair. 

Take care of him, Cincy! 

[Ozzy]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

Its weird how stats are neccesary to impress some of yall.  If those numbers were never tracked would you still be touting Joe Burrow?  

You shouldn't need stats to know if a player is great.  True greatness should be readily apparent.  For example, those of us that believed in Lamar Jackson before the 2018 draft weren't sold on him doing what he's doing right now in the NFL based on his stats.  We saw greatness in the way he played on the field.  And it was apparent from his first collegiate game as a true freshmen against Auburn in 2015.  He looked like the next Michael Vick even then.

If Joe Burrow is as great as you think he is, then you should have seen it before this season.

 

78.9% completion percentage, 4014 yards, 41 TDs, 6 INTs, 203.7 QB rating.

 

Those are numbers too hard to not pay attention to, much less at LSU in the SEC against multiple top 10 ranked teams at the time in Texas, Florida, Auburn and Alabama.  Sure you will have a point if next year Myles Brennan has similar success and shows that maybe he is a product of the system.  But my guess is Joe Brady is gone after this year either back to the NFL or as a HC in college somewhere else so one might not get that chance.

Kyler Murray had similar one amazing year and then off to the NFL his senior year last season so it is not that rare.  Sure ideally one would want production from early on but he never had that chanced based on the teams he was on.  And the days of oh they play for say (Texas Tech and or Mike Leach) those stats mean nothing, well those are gone because more than a few guys from those systems have done quite well in the NFL and the NFL is changing in terms of how defense is allowed to play so it opens up ways to have the QB play and who can play QB at the next level.  

 

69% completing percentage, 4361 yards, 42 TDs, 7 INTs, 199.2 QB rating.  Those were Kyler Murray's numbers with two more games added onto it, hell Burrow still has A&M, Georgia and one if not two Playoff games to add to those crazy stats he already has against soon to be top line competition.  

One cannot deny Joe Burrow has been flat our great and sure he is not better than Chase Young but he will still be the 1st QB taken in the draft with Tua's injury concerns.  And hard to not like his competitive toughness and mental strength.  Kid is a leader and a dude guys like to follow.  Yeah maybe he is like Matt Leinart who just looks good because of the talent around him but will see.  He does have two new starters on the OT spots on the team who are playing better but that OL especially the OT spot was so bad those two dudes are out of there and new ones are in the past two games.  

[VanS]

19 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Or it could be that coaching actually matters? 

If you have yet to be informed, Joe Brady came to LSU, and turned that blah pass game of 2018 into something excellent in 2019.

Been watching Burrow for the last two years. He was just okay last year, and most figured it was just typical blah LSU pass game. QBs really can be held back due to circumstances outside of themselves, did you know? 

This season, adding Coach Brady + then Burrow developing along with his teammates has shown a remarkable turnaround. Burrow's dad was a player and coach, and pro teams will like this as well. He's sharp and highly driven to succeeding. 

I don't understand this particular battle of yours. It seems to revolve around his 1-yr only success, but it's important to at least dig into the reasons for that, if to be fair. 

Take care of him, Cincy! 

So is the coach coming with Joe Burrow to the NFL?  Better yet just hire that coach since he seems to be the key to all of this rather than the QB who had his breakout collegiate season as a 23 year old redshirt senior.

[VanS]

29 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

 

78.9% completion percentage, 4014 yards, 41 TDs, 6 INTs, 203.7 QB rating.

 

Those are numbers too hard to not pay attention to, much less at LSU in the SEC against multiple top 10 ranked teams at the time in Texas, Florida, Auburn and Alabama.  Sure you will have a point if next year Myles Brennan has similar success and shows that maybe he is a product of the system.  But my guess is Joe Brady is gone after this year either back to the NFL or as a HC in college somewhere else so one might not get that chance.

Kyler Murray had similar one amazing year and then off to the NFL his senior year last season so it is not that rare.  Sure ideally one would want production from early on but he never had that chanced based on the teams he was on.  And the days of oh they play for say (Texas Tech and or Mike Leach) those stats mean nothing, well those are gone because more than a few guys from those systems have done quite well in the NFL and the NFL is changing in terms of how defense is allowed to play so it opens up ways to have the QB play and who can play QB at the next level.  

 

69% completing percentage, 4361 yards, 42 TDs, 7 INTs, 199.2 QB rating.  Those were Kyler Murray's numbers with two more games added onto it, hell Burrow still has A&M, Georgia and one if not two Playoff games to add to those crazy stats he already has against soon to be top line competition.  

One cannot deny Joe Burrow has been flat our great and sure he is not better than Chase Young but he will still be the 1st QB taken in the draft with Tua's injury concerns.  And hard to not like his competitive toughness and mental strength.  Kid is a leader and a dude guys like to follow.  Yeah maybe he is like Matt Leinart who just looks good because of the talent around him but will see.  He does have two new starters on the OT spots on the team who are playing better but that OL especially the OT spot was so bad those two dudes are out of there and new ones are in the past two games.  

I'm confused.  Do you guys not watch football?  Can't you tell who can ball and who can't in a football game without needing to look at the box score?

I don't need you to recite to me what his stats are.  I could care less.  I also don't care how his stats compare to Kyler Murray.  I saw Kyler Murray's first collegiate game as a true freshmen at Texas A&M when he took over for Kyle Allen and his talent jumped off the screen.  Stop trying to convince me Joe Burrow is great.  You can't.  I've watched him play.  And if I've seen a guy play no stats you post will change my opinion. 

All I want to know is why you can't trust what you see on tape?  Why this reliance on stats?  Shouldn't talent be apparent without needing to check the box score?

Edited November 26, 2019 by VanS

[jrry32]

21 minutes ago, VanS said:

I'm confused.  Do you guys not watch football?  Can't you tell who can ball and who can't in a football game without needing to look at the box score?

I can. Burrow can ball. The stats aren't empty numbers. And yes, we already know that nothing will change your opinion.

[VanS]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I can. Burrow can ball. The stats aren't empty numbers. And yes, we already know that nothing will change your opinion.

Could Joe Burrow also ball last year?  If not, why should we value his play this season over the last?

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

Could Joe Burrow also ball last year?  If not, why should we value his play this season over the last?

Yes. Because players improve over the course of their college careers.

[VanS]

6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yes.

So at this point last year you had Burrow rated as a 1st round talent?  If that's the case then excuse me.  I don't have a problem with disagreeing about talent.

My only point of contention is with people who saw nothing special in him last year but are ready to crown him this year.  Players can improve.  But we're not taking about an 18 year old freshmen growing into his body.  Joe Burrow is currently older than the leading candidate for NFL MVP this year.  

[jg77]

57 minutes ago, VanS said:

I'm confused.  Do you guys not watch football?  Can't you tell who can ball and who can't in a football game without needing to look at the box score?

I don't need you to recite to me what his stats are.  I could care less.  I also don't care how his stats compare to Kyler Murray.  I saw Kyler Murray's first collegiate game as a true freshmen at Texas A&M when he took over for Kyle Allen and his talent jumped off the screen.  Stop trying to convince me Joe Burrow is great.  You can't.  I've watched him play.  And if I've seen a guy play no stats you post will change my opinion. 

All I want to know is why you can't trust what you see on tape?  Why this reliance on stats?  Shouldn't talent be apparent without needing to check the box score?

It's hard for me to disagree with you. Burrow does not jump off the screen for me.

I would be worried if I was a Bengals fan. I don't see Burrow changing the landscape of that team.

Edited November 26, 2019 by jg77

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

So at this point last year you had Burrow rated as a 1st round talent?  If that's the case then excuse me.  I don't have a problem with disagreeing about talent.

My only point of contention is with people who saw nothing special in him last year but are ready to crown him this year.  Players can improve.  But we're not taking about an 18 year old freshmen growing into his body.  Joe Burrow is currently older than the leading candidate for NFL MVP this year.  

No. I also didn't have Cam Newton rated as a first round talent before his season at Auburn. Same with Josh Jacobs, Quinnen Williams, Leighton Vander Esch, etc. Players improve. If you refuse to account for that, you're not doing a good job of evaluating them.

Edited November 26, 2019 by jrry32

[SmittyBacall]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

So at this point last year you had Burrow rated as a 1st round talent?  If that's the case then excuse me.  I don't have a problem with disagreeing about talent.

My only point of contention is with people who saw nothing special in him last year but are ready to crown him this year.  Players can improve.  But we're not taking about an 18 year old freshmen growing into his body.  Joe Burrow is currently older than the leading candidate for NFL MVP this year.  

So the only way a player can improve is through puberty? Why do NFL QBs hit their prime when they turn 28-29?

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, VanS said:

So is the coach coming with Joe Burrow to the NFL?  Better yet just hire that coach since he seems to be the key to all of this rather than the QB who had his breakout collegiate season as a 23 year old redshirt senior.

And that's the question you have to ask.  Is Burrow succeeding because of the coaching staff or was he held back because of the prior coaching staff?  I mean, we saw a night and day difference with Jared Goff with Jeff Fisher as opposed to Sean McVay.  Under Jeff Fisher, Jared Goff looked like he was another QB bust, but the first year with McVay Goff appeared to be an ascending QB.  So you have to ask yourself, is he succeeding because of Joe Brady or because it's not the OC before him?  And stats should confirm what you see on tape.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

No. I also didn't have Cam Newton rated as a first round talent before his season at Auburn. Same with Josh Jacobs, Quinnen Williams, Leighton Vander Esch, etc. Players improve. If you refuse to account for that, you're not doing a good job of evaluating them.

Hey, it's better to come to an opinion first and be wrong then slightly later and right.