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If you didn't think Joe Burrow was a 1st rounder last year, why would you think he's one this year?


VanS

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4 hours ago, Breesus mode said:

Why is it so hard for some people to understand the mental side of the game is the most important for a QB.

Remember, this is the same guy that thinks Deshaun Watson is better than Brady because Brady isn't as talented.

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12 hours ago, VanS said:

No.  Lamar Jackson is uber talented.  Even if he didn't play in this scheme he would still have a career like Michael Vick (which is nothing to sneeze at).

I'm talking about guys who have little in the way of physical talent (like Drew Brees) that succeed because of scheme and who they have around them.  Lamar is not that.

So you're telling me that Lamar Jackson could do what Brady and Brees does in a classic drop back role at QB?

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12 hours ago, jrry32 said:

This is an objectively dumb argument. Brees didn't succeed because of scheme and the players around him any more than Deshaun Watson or Lamar Jackson has. You suffer from the misconception that physical talent makes successful QBs. It doesn't. Skill, instincts, and mental acuity makes successful QBs. That's why Colin Kaepernick never came close to being Drew Brees.

You assume Watson does. There's not sufficient evidence to support that point right now. And you speak of the benefit of taking the more physically talented player. But it's impossible to ignore that three of the four best QBs of this generation were nothing special in terms of physical talent. Of course, you have excuses for why that is.

And it's not like Watson is that uber talented physically either according to VanS. That's the other annoying part. 

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3 hours ago, Xenos said:

So you're telling me that Lamar Jackson could do what Brady and Brees does in a classic drop back role at QB?

No.  He does it his own way.  And finally a NFL team has decided to mold an offense around talent like his.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Lamar Jackson is proving that you can win at a high level as a NFL QB in ways other than drop back passing. 

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3 hours ago, Xenos said:

And it's not like Watson is that uber talented physically either according to VanS. That's the other annoying part. 

Where have I ever said that?  Deshaun is extremely talented.  He's not generational like Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen but he's extremely talented.

My only issue with Deshaun was his DURABILITY.  I didn't think he would last long in the NFL.  And I still don't.  His penchant for holding onto the ball and taking big hits still scares me.

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25 minutes ago, VanS said:

No.  He does it his own way.  And finally a NFL team has decided to mold an offense around talent like his.

Just like teams built for Brady, Brees, or anybody else.  It's not that hard to scheme for Brees.  He has elite accuracy short/intermediate, and in his prime, very good accuracy deep.  So it's a no brainer to get him a pass catching RB and a big possession receiver(Colston/Thomas).  I don't see how that type of thing takes away from what they've done.  You don't have to sacrifice your team in other areas or go way out of your way to scheme and build for these guys.

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4 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

Just like teams built for Brady, Brees, or anybody else.  It's not that hard to scheme for Brees.  He has elite accuracy short/intermediate, and in his prime, very good accuracy deep.  So it's a no brainer to get him a pass catching RB and a big possession receiver(Colston/Thomas).  I don't see how that type of thing takes away from what they've done.  You don't have to sacrifice your team in other areas or go way out of your way to scheme and build for these guys.

When someone else can replace you without much drop-off because your skill set is unremarkable, it makes you less valuable IMO.  We saw Teddy Bridgewater lead the Saints to an undefeated record in one of the few times we've seen Brees miss extended time.  The Patriots have routinely performed well without Brady.  They went 11-5 in 2008 without him.  And then in 2016 they went 3-1 while he was suspended.

Elite talents like Lamar Jackson aren't so easy to replace.

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9 minutes ago, VanS said:

When someone else can replace you without much drop-off because your skill set is unremarkable, it makes you less valuable IMO.  We saw Teddy Bridgewater lead the Saints to an undefeated record in one of the few times we've seen Brees miss extended time.  The Patriots have routinely performed well without Brady.  They went 11-5 in 2008 without him.  And then in 2016 they went 3-1 while he was suspended.

Elite talents like Lamar Jackson aren't so easy to replace.

When looking at talent, do you consider mental processing?

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1 minute ago, VanS said:

When someone else can replace you without much drop-off because your skill set is unremarkable, it makes you less valuable IMO.  We saw Teddy Bridgewater lead the Saints to an undefeated record in one of the few times we've seen Brees miss extended time.  The Patriots have routinely performed well without Brady.  They went 11-5 in 2008 without him.  And then in 2016 they went 3-1 while he was suspended.

Elite talents like Lamar Jackson aren't so easy to replace.

Going 5-0 with elite defensive play to compensate for mediocre scoring is not the same as replacing 9 straight years of 30+ TDs, four years leading the league in TDs, seven years leading the league in yards, six years leading the league in comp%, two years leading the league in passer rating, a season with 47 TDs and 5500 yards passing, a superbowl MVP, and 3-4 MVP caliber seasons.

Cmon now, you're just purposely being obtuse.  Teddy did a good job, but five games with mediocre 15th ranked points per drive does not replace Brees.  The fact that the team won games is a testament to how good the team is. 

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1 minute ago, Jlowe22 said:

Going 5-0 with elite defensive play to compensate for mediocre scoring is not the same as replacing 9 straight years of 30+ TDs, four years leading the league in TDs, seven years leading the league in yards, six years leading the league in comp%, two years leading the league in passer rating, a season with 47 TDs and 5500 yards passing, a superbowl MVP, and 3-4 MVP caliber seasons.

Cmon now, you're just purposely being obtuse.  Teddy did a good job, but five games with mediocre 15th ranked points per drive does not replace Brees.  The fact that the team won games is a testament to how good the team is. 

I never said Bridgewater was as good as Brees.  In fact I've never been a fan of Bridgewater.  I think he's a bad starting QB.  So him struggling to duplicate Brees' individual production doesn't surprise me.  However, he did manage to look like a competent starting QB in Brees place and did lead his team to an undefeated record. 

My argument isn't that any QB can duplicate Brees production. Its that Sean Payton's scheme has helped lift Brees from a pretty good starting QB to a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Other QBs could do what Brees has done under Payton. 

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12 minutes ago, VanS said:

To a degree.  But not as much as the physical. 

I look at the other way.  I want mental processing first and accuracy second.  Without those, a QB will be short lived.  No matter how big an arm they have.

The sole exception to that in the last 30 years would be Vick.

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3 minutes ago, VanS said:

I never said Bridgewater was as good as Brees.  In fact I've never been a fan of Bridgewater.  I think he's a bad starting QB.  So him struggling to duplicate Brees' individual production doesn't surprise me.  However, he did manage to look like a competent starting QB in Brees place and did lead his team to an undefeated record. 

My argument isn't that any QB can duplicate Brees production. Its that Sean Payton's scheme has helped lift Brees from a pretty good starting QB to a first ballot Hall of Famer.  Other QBs could do what Brees has done under Payton. 

Even if that's true, which we'll never know, how is that any different than Lamar and his situation?  You've said he'd be Vick in Vick's shoes.  Vick was a special athlete, but has not had production even remotely close to the elite QBs.

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