5 Up, 5 down - Game 1

[THE DUKE]

I know I'm being overly pessimistic (can you be too pessimistic as a Cincinnati sports fan?) but our oline is going to be terribad all season.  Maybe that will finally get Paul Alexander fired.

[ochocinco4pres]

1 minute ago, THE DUKE said:

I know I'm being overly pessimistic (can you be too pessimistic as a Cincinnati sports fan?) but our oline is going to be terribad all season.  Maybe that will finally get Paul Alexander fired.

this would be ideal IMO. But no matter what, I do not see him being fired until Marvin is moved on from. 

[THE DUKE]

13 minutes ago, ochocinco4pres said:

I am not sure how many people follow Joe Goodberry on twitter (but you should), but he just posted that the all 22 has a lot of evidence against Andy and Ken Zampese. 

Added him on Twitter (and cleared out 22 follows that don't matter anymore), he better be good.

[ochocinco4pres]

6 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Added him on Twitter (and cleared out 22 follows that don't matter anymore), he better be good.

He is great from a Bengals standpoint. Big comic book fan that he tweets about at times. But from a Bengals standpoint, I am not sure there is a better follow.

[MrCincinnati]

23 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

So let me get this straight.  he has no OL, his play-calling OC is bad, and now we are seeing that Dalton has been exposed for what he is???  So what is he?  Under-protected?  handicapped by his OC?  Those first two sentences are in such contradiction to one another.  

Should he just say screw it and throw caution to the wind and do whatever he wants?  I don't think the word Mutiny would sit well with Lewis, his head coach, or Brown, the man who, you know, signs his checks.

 

Dalton had a bad game.  The line was worse.  So from where I was sitting, i thought a third pass was tipped for an INT.  

 

You rip on Burfict at every chance because you don't like him, but you attack the very opposite personality in Dalton.  Name a great QB who overcame a conservative head coach, a Peter-Principled OC surviving on his father's name, an offensive line whose average PFF score was a 38  (fisher was highest at 43, I sh!t you not), and wide receivers who stand around when the play got busted? 

Aaron Rodgers has been putting his entire team on his back for years, and yet he somehow manages to play like an MVP every year. Drew Brees has no defense whatsoever, yet the man always be throwing 400 yards a game. Andrew Luck, up until the point that he got hurt last year didn't have any OL whatsoever to protect him but still looks like a franchise QB.

Finally Big Ben is what comes to my mind. Had no OL whatsoever for years and incompetent offensive coordinators from time to time, but continues to play like a elite QB. Say what you will about the guy being a rapist and stuff, the guy is a first ballot hall of famer. All I know is, in the NFL if you have a franchise QB you have hope. Why, because those guys have all the tools to be a great QB, and have the ability to make (key word here) players better. I don't consider Dalton a Franchise QB, because he doesn't make the players better, they make him better. They don't have any better options to replace him, and Mike Brown is content with being average, so that's why he's still there.

I don't want to attack the guy personally, but I'm fed up with this team making NO progress whatsoever. Rolling the dice is the only way to get better at this point.

 

[INbengalfan]

33 minutes ago, MrCincinnati said:

Aaron Rodgers has been putting his entire team on his back for years, and yet he somehow manages to play like an MVP every year. Drew Brees has no defense whatsoever, yet the man always be throwing 400 yards a game. Andrew Luck, up until the point that he got hurt last year didn't have any OL whatsoever to protect him but still looks like a franchise QB.

Finally Big Ben is what comes to my mind. Had no OL whatsoever for years and incompetent offensive coordinators from time to time, but continues to play like a elite QB. Say what you will about the guy being a rapist and stuff, the guy is a first ballot hall of famer. All I know is, in the NFL if you have a franchise QB you have hope. Why, because those guys have all the tools to be a great QB, and have the ability to make (key word here) players better. I don't consider Dalton a Franchise QB, because he doesn't make the players better, they make him better. They don't have any better options to replace him, and Mike Brown is content with being average, so that's why he's still there.

I don't want to attack the guy personally, but I'm fed up with this team making NO progress whatsoever. Rolling the dice is the only way to get better at this point.

 

How many franchise quarterbacks are out there?  It's  not like they grow on trees, ever make it to free agency, or are available after the top 5 or so picks in a draft.

 

Short of putting an elite QB on a Santa wish list, how do you recommend they solve the problem, because about 25 teams would like to know.

[Beck Bristow]

Past five seasons, Green Bay has won 51 games, New Orleans 39 and Indianapolis 49, which is the same as Cincinnati.  Non of them have sniffed the Super Bowl in that time frame.  Franchise QB's are nice, but hard to come by and then you are stuck with paying therm a ton and being short elsewhere, unless you are m Brady.  Trying to build a good team around a decent qb is the only reasonable thing you can do.  Anyway, fire Marvin and Paul especially.

[theJ]

31 minutes ago, Beck Bristow said:

Past five seasons, Green Bay has won 51 games, New Orleans 39 and Indianapolis 49, which is the same as Cincinnati.  Non of them have sniffed the Super Bowl in that time frame.  Franchise QB's are nice, but hard to come by and then you are stuck with paying therm a ton and being short elsewhere, unless you are m Brady.  Trying to build a good team around a decent qb is the only reasonable thing you can do.  Anyway, fire Marvin and Paul especially.

Very true.

Dalton has played really well for two plus years.  It makes me sick that he got hurt in 2015, because they were going to win a playoff game with him.  He was head and shoulders better than McCarron that year.  But he never got a chance to prove it, and the offensive line has fallen apart around him since then.

Even looking at guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.; their numbers improve when their offensive lines are better.  They aren't immune to the issue either.  I don't know why Dalton should be held to a higher standard.

@MrCincinnati

[XU Lou]

Just catching up this week on the posts.  Looks like everyone has quite the hangover from the game.  There was enough to see to call the butt whipping a team effort.  Starting with the front office, to the coaching staff and to the players.  

I am glad I won't be able to get the game on Thursday.

Good news is, they really can't play much worse.  Well, hopefully not much worse.  

 

[THE DUKE]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:51 PM, INbengalfan said:

How many franchise quarterbacks are out there?  It's  not like they grow on trees, ever make it to free agency, or are available after the top 5 or so picks in a draft.

 

Short of putting an elite QB on a Santa wish list, how do you recommend they solve the problem, because about 25 teams would like to know.

That's why if we have a top 2 pick, we should take Darnold or Rosen.  Andy is a solid NFL starting QB.  He'll never be a top NFL QB that can carry a team.  If we don't have a top 2 pick, get a LT.

[INbengalfan]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

That's why if we have a top 2 pick, we should take Darnold or Rosen.  Andy is a solid NFL starting QB.  He'll never be a top NFL QB that can carry a team.  If we don't have a top 2 pick, get a LT.

I can see the logic, but I can also see the logic in slipping back multiple times like the Browns did and getting 2 OTs and a C before the end of the second round.

[Carson4MVP]

2 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

I can see the logic, but I can also see the logic in slipping back multiple times like the Browns did and getting 2 OTs and a C before the end of the second round.

If you have a top 2 pick, I think you gotta take a QB. You can move Dalton if necessary to get the other picks to address the OLine if you want. But we've seen Dalton with a good line, he's still Andy Dalton. Getting a new line and not changing the QB is not helping us advance in the playoffs. 

[theJ]

3 minutes ago, Carson4MVP said:

If you have a top 2 pick, I think you gotta take a QB. You can move Dalton if necessary to get the other picks to address the OLine if you want. But we've seen Dalton with a good line, he's still Andy Dalton. Getting a new line and not changing the QB is not helping us advance in the playoffs. 

So i think this is really unfair.  Andy showed us a lot in 2015, cutting his turnover rate in half over his career INT%.  Increased TD's, and damned near turned in a MVP season.  Even last year, he was the shining star on an offense that was pretty bad and struggled with injuries to key players.  The Andy Dalton of today is a much different player than the one we last saw in the playoffs.  I don't understand this line of thought that Sept 10, 2017 negates two seasons of top 10 QB play.  Every QB has bad games now and again.  But only with Andy Dalton does it bring his detractors out of the woodwork to justify their thoughts they're holding onto from 2014.

If this was March of 2015, i agree with you.  I think i even said some of the same things in that offseason.  But the Andy Dalton of the 2015 season was a much different QB, and I'm not going to overreact to one game. 

Really it's a shame he got hurt late in the 2015 campaign.  I think we're not having this discussion at this point, because i'm pretty confident they would have beat the Steelers in that game.  McCarron filled in admirably, but the offense took a nose dive with him under center.  We'll never know.