I think we saw the future last night...

[kurgan]

 

At least in regards to the OL.  With Foster's time in Pitt limited, and Finney an upcoming FA, the lineup of AV-Feiler-Pouncey-DeCastro-Chucks looks like it may catch on and be a thing moving forward.  All of them would be under contract and ready to go next year.

I'd be interested to see the grades on them.  Rudolph looked to have time to throw the ball... 

[oksteeler]

Pouncey was hot garbage!

He killed the first three drives.

Wild snap = touchdown Rams

tripped runningback = punt

whiffed on Donald = punt

 

I'm now convinced that many of you are correct that Pouncey has to go and Center should be a real priority for this team. We have enough holes to fill to require us to simply take BPA in the draft, but BPA needs to equal a couple of OL. Please.

Quote

 

 

[skywlker32]

3 minutes ago, oksteeler said:

Pouncey was hot garbage!

He killed the first three drives.

Wild snap = touchdown Rams

tripped runningback = punt

whiffed on Donald = punt

 

I'm now convinced that many of you are correct that Pouncey has to go and Center should be a real priority for this team. We have enough holes to fill to require us to simply take BPA in the draft, but BPA needs to equal a couple of OL. Please.

 

I could be wrong, but I think the RB tripped himself.

[oksteeler]

I wish the back had tripped himself. We have far more invested in Pouncey than we do in that scrub back.

Pouncey literally stepped on the back of the man's foot. He was getting manhandled and was backpedaling ridiculously fast.

[kurgan]

So... Is Pouncey on a decline overall, or is there a specific reason for his poor play (Not having Ben)??  Or, are we spoiled by the way he has been for years??

Another question.... to solve the Finney/Foster "issue" is there a thought that we could draft the Best Center available in our pick, and slide Pouncey to guard??  I know he would be very highly paid for a Guard, but would that be an option to replace Foster/Finney??

[oksteeler]

Pouncey has two issues in my opinion.

Health and attitude.

He has battled to stay healthy, without question. Sometimes he has played while being a little beaten up and for that I give him credit.

The attitude issue is how he takes too many plays off. He is capable of consistently dominating. He is capable of not getting manhandled by almost anyone and he can snap the ball without issue. But he has that star mentality that tells him that he is good enough to be allowed to give minimal effort on 30-40% of the plays (that's being kind). It's similar to an NBA star that no longer plays consistent defense.

With his ego and this lack of consistency, do we really think he would transfer to guard? He wouldn't! It would be an insult to his pride. He would either demand a trade or give even less effort. No, start him at center or move him off the team. 

 

[skywlker32]

1 hour ago, oksteeler said:

I wish the back had tripped himself. We have far more invested in Pouncey than we do in that scrub back.

Pouncey literally stepped on the back of the man's foot. He was getting manhandled and was backpedaling ridiculously fast.

I remember watching it initially and thinking that he had tripped on Pouncey, but the replay showed him tripping over his own foot from what I recall. I can't find video of the play though.

[oksteeler]

Hey I'm not perfect.

I could be wrong. What's clear is that Pouncey was getting rag dolled and running backwards. That clogs that backfield and usually changes the direction of the back and almost always kills a running play.

Sad

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, oksteeler said:

I wish the back had tripped himself. We have far more invested in Pouncey than we do in that scrub back.

Pouncey literally stepped on the back of the man's foot. He was getting manhandled and was backpedaling ridiculously fast.

I saw pouncey get pushed back (as usual) and the RB tripped as a result. No need to argue, the facts are he is no good at all anymore. He is THE reason we never run up the middle for a yard ie 3rd and 1 etc. He gets no movement and is on skates too often.  I thought he played decent a few years ago, but this year he has really regressed .  Actually so has everyone else, and I am not liking the OL. 

 

5 hours ago, kurgan said:

At least in regards to the OL.  With Foster's time in Pitt limited, and Finney an upcoming FA, the lineup of AV-Feiler-Pouncey-DeCastro-Chucks looks like it may catch on and be a thing moving forward.  All of them would be under contract and ready to go next year.

I'd be interested to see the grades on them.  Rudolph looked to have time to throw the ball... 

It might have to catch on because I am not sure what other options they will have. Breaking up an OL is a continuity  issue, and too many changes in a season isn't easy to get playing at a high level. I would opt for Banner at LG and keep solid RT Feiler where he was.  He has quietly been a solid OL, rarely gets penalties and consistent . Chuks had issues the other night but wait and see. Too bad Munchak is gone, he made the OL so much better. 

Cap issues (as usual) and other priorities will leave the OL on the back burner wrt higher draft picks and UFA , similar to the 2007-2009 era except they have more talent now to get through this time around. They will keep pouncey as he is seen as a leader, but he has been the least effective OL on the team, a reason PFF has him as the 2nd last ranked centre  possibly. At least get the snaps right, how does that even happen?

I thought Mason was under pressure more than I would expect a good or even decent OL to allow. No where near what the OL was last year or the year before. Of course, after the season we could also learn about some players having injuries 

3 hours ago, oksteeler said:

The attitude issue is how he takes too many plays off. He is capable of consistently dominating

I never observed him taking plays off but I never watched all his snaps  to verify. NT's had a rep for doing that, but I never thought POuncey as a center did that. If he does, then trade him because thats a disservice to the rest of the OL on those plays. I never cared for players taking downs off unless it was say Hampton, who would dominate almost every other play , so he gets a "pass" for that. 

 

3 hours ago, kurgan said:

So... Is Pouncey on a decline overall, or is there a specific reason for his poor play (Not having Ben)??  Or, are we spoiled by the way he has been for years??

Another question.... to solve the Finney/Foster "issue" is there a thought that we could draft the Best Center available in our pick, and slide Pouncey to guard??  I know he would be very highly paid for a Guard, but would that be an option to replace Foster/Finney??

 As for your comment about dominating, that word is often overused, and I have never seen pouncey dominate, but he has been solid at times and excellent in passport especially helping his guards, he was a top tier C at that .  He doesn't handle NT's well and isn't good at straight ahead inning run blocking. Even when he pulls, he often does nothing when he gets out there. Want to see what a dominant C is, watch Dawson . There were others over the years,  but pouncey has never been in that realm. DDC at times has, and I thought Finney was the few times he played in the past. 

In recent years I have at times been disappointed in pouncey because he has been solid over the years, and really excels at helping the OG's in pass pro. He has his drawbacks as we all do, but I am seeing some reoccurring setbacks in the run game such as him getting pushed around, not being stout and the team never runs behind him when they need a yard or hardly ever straight up the middle. Thats a serious flaw and allows defences too much flexibility to scheme to attack that.  Spoiled - I am not sure what you mean by this. He was part of a top 5 OL and deserved credit for his contributions, but unfortunately it appears that level of performance has fallen quite a ways.  I still think he should be capable much more than what we are seeing,  but maybe the shakeup in the OL line up also plays into this. It's a mystery right now, the fall off is much more that I could have though and I am a bit shocked actually despite being a critic at times int he past. Maybe taking downs off is to blame, I might have to rewatch and see. VCR was much better for that, and so was the run blocking back then too

2 hours ago, oksteeler said:

Hey I'm not perfect.

I could be wrong. What's clear is that Pouncey was getting rag dolled and running backwards. That clogs that backfield and usually changes the direction of the back and almost always kills a running play.

Sad

this is what we all are noticing, well us fans that is. Colbert  though, well lets see if he notices because if he does, there will be a trade in the offseason. It's really bad that you have the highest paid C rated 2nd worst PFF (not the final word but a guideline) and us 'fans" notice these setbacks.   He could be injured, taking downs off, or just not taking to the new coaches among other factors.  I even thought if he got hurt, it wound't be a drop off on the OL and normally you can't say the back up is as good as the starter especially one that has such a resume. 

Pouncey and Lawfirm got tangled up, no big deal as pouncey was pulling. With enough reps, they would sort this out.  56 hit the gap, changing the angles of the blocking for pouncey and the result was the tangle of the feet.  Not the same as being pushed back into he QB or not being able to run straight ahead for a yard on 2nd and 1, 3rd and 1 etc. 

[mwalker]

I think the Pouncey drop off has been real.
There are some very good interior line prospects that would be there for us with our picks,
but I think DT and OLB are more likely priorities. Someone mentioned it on another thread,
but I wonder if we could/would trade Pouncey for cap relief and retaining Finney  + Hargrave/Dupree?

[warfelg]

Can we also acknowledge he was against the best DT since Joe Greene and likely one of the top 3 ever when all is said and done? Donald makes a lot of interior OL look like they should quit football. 

[Chieferific]

9 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Can we also acknowledge he was against the best DT since Joe Greene and likely one of the top 3 ever when all is said and done? Donald makes a lot of interior OL look like they should quit football. 

Very true. Also, OCs shouldn't be responsible for a lot of Solo blocking. Blocking for a pulling OG, sure. Otherwise, they should help the weakest OG or assist against the toughest DT (Donald).  IMO anyway. Maybe I'm out of touch. 

[warfelg]

25 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Very true. Also, OCs shouldn't be responsible for a lot of Solo blocking. Blocking for a pulling OG, sure. Otherwise, they should help the weakest OG or assist against the toughest DT (Donald).  IMO anyway. Maybe I'm out of touch. 

No you are right. And the reason why I say this is the last two weeks Pouncey was actually PFF rated our best OL player. Against the Colts, Phins, Chargers he was so solid. 
 

The snap issues I partially chalk up to (and I know it’s been 7 games) different cadences, voices, and timing with Mason vs Ben. 
 

This weeks OL combo worked really well. Villy was very solid. The right side stayed strong. Overall I think this is the combo moving forward. 

[kurgan]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

This weeks OL combo worked really well. Villy was very solid. The right side stayed strong. Overall I think this is the combo moving forward. 

 

This was my overall impression as well.  Even moving into 2020.  Knowing that either '20 or '21 is the last ride season of Ben and the boyz, it makes sense, at least in Steelers FO's mind, to keep his center and have them ride off into the sunset.  IF that is the case, I think we see more of this OL than the previous 2019 versions with Feiler at RT.  Plus, we REALLY need to see what Chuks has before long.

Foster is most likely done, one way or the other.  Finney is going to get starter money and PT from someone....

[3rivers]

18 hours ago, mwalker said:

I wonder if we could/would trade Pouncey for cap relief and retaining Finney  + Hargrave/Dupree?

this is what I thought, but it might not be possible. If they did this, they would be set for YEARS! on the front and dominate. Imagine that, Dominate with healthy Tuitt and then add the fact that some of these players will also get better? Thats why I like this idea, especially since POuncey is not getting better and ben has declined too. Time to move the overpaid players and keep the youth that is entering their prime.    

I am actually glad pouncey takes downs off and has had a bad year. Being ranked 2nd worst in PFF isn't like an angry fan commenting, it's a decent guideline and confirms it's not just us on the forum either.  He might be on his way out  anyways for all we know.  Too bad, because a few years ago he was playing as good as he ever did, but not near that in 2019. 

6 hours ago, kurgan said:

Foster is most likely done, one way or the other.  Finney is going to get starter money and PT from someone....

it should be here, Finney deserves the start but never got it, maybe he isn't healthy right now. Foster is done, out vs the pass but lost his speed for any mobile run blocking. He could find a new home,  but I always thought Finney was better anyways. 

 

11 hours ago, warfelg said:

Can we also acknowledge he was against the best DT since Joe Greene and likely one of the top 3 ever when all is said and done? Donald makes a lot of interior OL look like they should quit football. 

no doubt. Donald is possibly the best DT ever according to many, and I can't argue and I also can't blame  a player that got beat the one time yet stalemated several other times. OL get blamed for a single bad play  but never seem to get the highlights when they excel. It's an example of the terrible TV coverage in todays pass happy fantasy nfl. There was a time when the OL got replays and showed the great blocks that made the RB's yardage .  

 

7 hours ago, kurgan said:

last ride season of Ben and the boyz, it makes sense, at least in Steelers FO's mind, to keep his center and have them ride off into the sunset. 

I have a feeling they think like this, but it makes no sense to me.  This is what really ticks me off, the team shouldn't be owned by the QB and be structured to make him happy , go off into the sunset etc.   Too many things have happened over the years , it's time to say goodbye .  Let Tomlin have the team and control the players the way he wants, which is what might be happening now anyways.  NO AB, Bell or Ben out there, so this season might be the first time we get to see how Tomlin actually coaches the entire team. NO LeBeau either, this is Tomlin's team now (for this season) and he is coach of the year candidate. If this team has a great year (especially compared to recent years), maybe rooney will sit down with coach T and actually listen to coach T and the end result of that meeting could have the team going in a better direction . Thats my hope anyways, because I was sick of how this team ended up in recent years.