Soko Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just now, Ray Reed said: Genuinely asking because if people are legitimately trying to argue the former I'm not really sure what to say at this point? I think that's very, very obviously Lamar Jackson. People are just going to say Vick wasn’t in a Vick-friendly offense and would be doing what Lamar is doing if he was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said: People are just going to say Vick wasn’t in a Vick-friendly offense and would be doing what Lamar is doing if he was. Not going to get any better once the actual offseason hits either, haha. And us Ravens fans thought the Joe Flacco debates in NFL GEN/COMP circa 2011-2016ish were getting tired.... Not looking forward to these lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, thrILL! said: I can see a lot of ppl in this thread never even watched Vick play in real time. Prolly just random clips on Youtube. But hey... bring all the analytics and metrics to the party you want. 100% these guys who pick Lamar are in their early teens or early 20s. Lamar is great.. But like ray Reed said, when it comes to holy ish did he do that. Vick will always be king. Much like Barry Sanders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonChigurh Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Vick is the GOAT qb talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 11 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said: 100% these guys who pick Lamar are in their early teens or early 20s. Lamar is great.. But like ray Reed said, when it comes to holy ish did he do that. Vick will always be king. Much like Barry Sanders. I disagree. Definitely in my 30s and saw Vick play. He was special. But they’re both special. Acting as though Lamar being electrifying somehow diminishes Vick and so you have to try and tank Lamar’s specialness is equally, if not the much more absurd cause. Vick has superior acceleration, but Lamar has better deep speed to keep from being being caught from behind as well as he has better suddenness. I’ve seen runs from Vick where it’s legit ridiculous, but I’ve never seen a Vick run more special than the run Lamar put up against the Bengals this year. Watching it in real time was truly unbelievable. Legit did not believe what I had saw and needed to wait for the replay to confirm it. Though Vick against the Vikings was pretty legit to behold as well... that said if there’s a play to top both it would be Vick’s pass to DeSean Jackson as an Eagle where the ball covered something like 70 air yards an dropped like a dime. Perhaps only 10 other QBs in history could’ve made such a throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 18 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said: Lamar has zero acceleration compared to Vick. And I don’t care. I’ve seen them both play. No one touches Vick. Lol watched both play a ton as well. Been a Saints fan since before Vick was drafted. Both are almost identical in terms of explosiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukos Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 22 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said: 100% these guys who pick Lamar are in their early teens or early 20s. Lamar is great.. But like ray Reed said, when it comes to holy ish did he do that. Vick will always be king. Much like Barry Sanders. Vick's low moments were also much more numerous, and hit much harder than Lamar's. The stuff that exists beyond the highlight reel is really ugly with Vick. Dude was a fumble machine, even in his prime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 16 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: Though Vick against the Vikings was pretty legit to behold as well... that said if there’s a play to top both it would be Vick’s pass to DeSean Jackson as an Eagle where the ball covered something like 70 air yards an dropped like a dime. Perhaps only 10 other QBs in history could’ve made such a throw. I've watched Vick live as a Falcon and seen him as a Eagle. There are a hand full of QB'S in NFL history which includes Patrick Mahomes that "COULD" with a legit Flick of the wrist, throw it 60 yds in the Air! Lamar can't do that. Everything LJ can do with his legs Vick "could" do at any time! The difference between the two at this age is Obviously Couching but more importantly, Maturity!!!!!!! Vick thought he was God's gift, Lamar is trying to be!! With that said. If both were in the 2020 draft, CURRENTLY , I'd take Vick and not think Twice!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Passing-wise, Vick was Billy Joe Tolliver. Pair it with his running and he was a dangerous weapon, but he didn't have the consistency on a game-to-game (or usually, play-to-play basis) to truly be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 19 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: I've watched Vick live as a Falcon and seen him as a Eagle. There are a hand full of QB'S in NFL history which includes Patrick Mahomes that "COULD" with a legit Flick of the wrist, throw it 60 yds in the Air! Lamar can't do that. Everything LJ can do with his legs Vick "could" do at any time! The difference between the two at this age is Obviously Couching but more importantly, Maturity!!!!!!! Vick thought he was God's gift, Lamar is trying to be!! With that said. If both were in the 2020 draft, CURRENTLY , I'd take Vick and not think Twice!!! Meh. I think you vastly overrate arm power in your analysis and underrate QB vision. Just like the GOAT RBs had an extra sensory vision where they could feel things without needing to see it, so do the top QBs have the vision to see things develop. Vick was never as dangerous as Lamar in the redzone because he was not an anticipatory thrower and couldn’t SEE through windows to see things developing. Lamar has that ability. I understand the dominance of Vick’s skillset, but Lamar dramatically improved from his freshman season at Louisville to his senior season. Lamar also improved miles from his rookie season to his sophomore season. Vick has never done such a thing. Its not just about coaching, it’s about personal drive... which is also a skill. Lamar is easily the more skilled QB which is why he’s been able to rise to his current heights. Lamar is and has always shown to be a student of the game, Vick only showed to be such after a horrific traumatic incident that shamed him and his brand. You would take Vick in a draft of the two and I would take Lamar and he right 10/10 because both are exceptionally talented individuals athletically, but one is going to consistently outwork and outlearn the other in spades... and that’s Lamar Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Meh. I think you vastly overrate arm power in your analysis and underrate QB vision. Just like the GOAT RBs had an extra sensory vision where they could feel things without needing to see it, so do the top QBs have the vision to see things develop. Vick was never as dangerous as Lamar in the redzone because he was not an anticipatory thrower and couldn’t SEE through windows to see things developing. Lamar has that ability. I understand the dominance of Vick’s skillset, but Lamar dramatically improved from his freshman season at Louisville to his senior season. Lamar also improved miles from his rookie season to his sophomore season. Vick has never done such a thing. Its not just about coaching, it’s about personal drive... which is also a skill. Lamar is easily the more skilled QB which is why he’s been able to rise to his current heights. Lamar is and has always shown to be a student of the game, Vick only showed to be such after a horrific traumatic incident that shamed him and his brand. You would take Vick in a draft of the two and I would take Lamar and he right 10/10 because both are exceptionally talented individuals athletically, but one is going to consistently outwork and outlearn the other in spades... and that’s Lamar Jackson. Never? Did you see Philadelphia Vick??? Wow such pompous answers there bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said: Never? Did you see Philadelphia Vick??? Wow such pompous answers there bud. 22 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Lamar is and has always shown to be a student of the game, Vick only showed to be such after a horrific traumatic incident that shamed him and his brand. Sometimes reading provides us with answers, one might say that given the material to read, your response could be classified as “pompous”. Whats more Philly Vick is not as good as MVP Lamar and it’s not even close. CBPOY Vick: 65 QBR, 100.2 PR, 15 AV MVP Lamar: 81.1 QBR, 113.3 PR, 26 AV Mike Vick is a unicorn fantasy, the perception of which does not exist within the reality of his greatness. He was and never will be as good as Lamar has shown to be this season be it before his redemption arc or after. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 37 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Sometimes reading provides us with answers, one might say that given the material to read, your response could be classified as “pompous”. Whats more Philly Vick is not as good as MVP Lamar and it’s not even close. CBPOY Vick: 65 QBR, 100.2 PR, 15 AV MVP Lamar: 81.1 QBR, 113.3 PR, 26 AV Mike Vick is a unicorn fantasy, the perception of which does not exist within the reality of his greatness. He was and never will be as good as Lamar has shown to be this season be it before his redemption arc or after. Qbr? Skip is that you. Vick has 30 Tds in 12 games started. You’re tripping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 45 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: I understand the dominance of Vick’s skillset, but Lamar dramatically improved from his freshman season at Louisville to his senior season. Lamar also improved miles from his rookie season to his sophomore season. Vick has never done such a thing. Its not just about coaching, it’s about personal drive... which is also a skill. Lamar is easily the more skilled QB which is why he’s been able to rise to his current heights. Lamar is and has always shown to be a student of the game, Vick only showed to be such after a horrific traumatic incident that shamed him and his brand. You would take Vick in a draft of the two and I would take Lamar and he right 10/10 because both are exceptionally talented individuals athletically, but one is going to consistently outwork and outlearn the other in spades... and that’s Lamar Jackson. Did you intentionally ignore the part where I said Maturity played a Factor with both? Lamar had Vick as a sounding board the past 4 years, had Vick talking to him personally on WHAT NOT TO DO, learn from my mistakes, be the opposite, study, this is whats needed to make it, ect! Vick was never asked to play QB at VTech or Atlanta. It was always one read, take off Michael be You! Two totally different mindsets/scenarios then the COACHING Lamar had at Louisville and most certainly has now with the Ravens. Pretending that hasn't aided LJ into becoming the Player he showed this year is beyond Absurd! Vick the Athlete if playing now would absolutely Kill it with these College Offenses, with these coaches Who Now know how to properly utilized these types of players skillsets! So he wouldn't of came out in the 2020 Draft the same exact player Michael Vick was coming out in 2001. That's an undeniable fact barring injury of course! He was the pioneer no one knew how to properly use, a Unicorn as you like to call him that was just told to run! Was never asked to learn or study because all he did, was Win! If it's not broke ,dont fix it mentality. Vick will always be the Poster Child example for every Mobile Athletic QB coming out of HS/College as to what not to do. How not to take the NFL and more especially playing the QB position for Grant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: Sometimes reading provides us with answers, one might say that given the material to read, your response could be classified as “pompous”. Whats more Philly Vick is not as good as MVP Lamar and it’s not even close. CBPOY Vick: 65 QBR, 100.2 PR, 15 AV MVP Lamar: 81.1 QBR, 113.3 PR, 26 AV Mike Vick is a unicorn fantasy, the perception of which does not exist within the reality of his greatness. He was and never will be as good as Lamar has shown to be this season be it before his redemption arc or after. Preach it there's no comparison between the 2 as QB's. Taking Lamar 10/10 times over Vick. Even his best years as an Eagle don't compare to what Jackson did this season as a QB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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