Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?

[Aussie9er]

Until Lamar can win a playoff game Vick is better.

[Duluther]

On 1/18/2020 at 9:32 AM, AntonChigurh said:

Vick is the GOAT qb talent. 

That would be Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes. There is more to QB talent than athleticism. Being able to throw the ball with accuracy, from multiple different angles accurately, being able to read defenses, feel pressure, etc. are all talents.

[diamondbull424]

9 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

Did you intentionally ignore the part where I said Maturity played a Factor with both? Lamar had Vick as a sounding board the past 4 years,  had Vick talking to him personally on WHAT NOT TO DO, learn from my mistakes, be the opposite, study, this is whats needed to make it, ect!

Vick was never asked to play QB at VTech or Atlanta. It was always one read, take off Michael be You! Two totally different mindsets/scenarios then the COACHING Lamar had at Louisville and most certainly has now with the Ravens. Pretending that hasn't aided LJ into becoming the Player he showed this year is beyond Absurd!

Vick the Athlete if playing now would absolutely Kill it with these College Offenses, with these coaches Who Now know how to properly utilized these types of players skillsets! So he wouldn't of came out in the 2020 Draft the same exact player Michael Vick was coming out in 2001. That's an undeniable fact barring injury of course! He was the pioneer no one knew how to properly use, a Unicorn as you like to call him that was just told to run! Was never asked to learn or study because all he did, was Win! If it's not broke ,dont fix it mentality.

Vick will always be the Poster Child example for every Mobile Athletic QB coming out of HS/College as to what not to do. How not to take the NFL and more especially playing the QB position for Grant it.

I didn’t ignore this. But Vick had mobile QBs to learn from like Steve Young and Randall Cunningham, he just thought he was better and above. Vick was handed tape of opponents to study by his coaches (which proves his coaches were TRYING to get him to improve), but he chose to ignore it. You’re also overrating Vick’s influence in Lamar’s life. By the time Vick latched onto Lamar it was when Louisville had played Florida State. By that time Lamar had already experienced serious growth in his QB ability every year at Louisville and was already on mark to become the Heisman that season.

Whats more while Vick was Lamar’s favorite QB growing up watching highlights, the QBs he has studied to improve are Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. Regardless of Vick, Lamar’s mom is why he’s had this advanced level of maturity at this age. Your acting as if Vick in 2020 would somehow be erased of his familial influences that continued to poison his decision making. You act as though QBs aren’t regressing in the league with these offenses because of distractions/work ethic/etc; Baker Mayfield and Cam Newton are two notable examples. You can’t separate Vick from his lack of maturity because that’s not Vick... that’s a silhouette of an individual that doesn’t exist.

[diamondbull424]

10 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Qbr? Skip is that you. Vick has 30 Tds in 12 games started. You’re tripping. 

Okay... and Lamar had 43 TDs in 13 3/4 games. So what’s your point?

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Aussie9er said:

Until Lamar can win a playoff game Vick is better.

Until Vick can lead the league in passing TDs, Lamar is better.

[El Ramster]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

Okay... and Lamar had 43 TDs in 13 3/4 games. So what’s your point?

Means you’re being short sighted homey. Vick improved a ton. Contradicting what you had said. Had he played those other games he would have dropped 40 TDs in a season. Breh.. Lamar played in big blow outs when game was out of reach. That is super stat padding. You can throw 15.5 but the dude was in there when the game was secured lol. 

[diamondbull424]

31 minutes ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Means you’re being short sighted homey. Vick improved a ton. Contradicting what you had said. Had he played those other games he would have dropped 40 TDs in a season. Breh.. Lamar played in big blow outs when game was out of reach. That is super stat padding. You can throw 15.5 but the dude was in there when the game was secured lol. 

I never said Vick didn’t improve. That’s your misguided interpretation of what I said. I noted that Vick didn’t improve until after his public shaming took away his public “IT” factor that made him nearly bullet proof regardless of how underdeveloped he was at the QB position. He was then forced to sit in a jail cell for nearly 2 years to contemplate and mature and analyze his priorities. This is when he saw his breakthrough from a mentality standpoint, not before then.

In 2020 what would stop a similarly immature Vick from repeating his same transgressions? What would stop him from not getting into his playbook and analyzing his opponents? Did Baker Mayfield similarly put the grind in his firs real NFL off season with all the distractions? Would John Harbaugh be so patient with an immature Vick when he hasn’t shown to be so patient with guys like Tim Williams who showed plenty of talent but got booted because he was a distraction and not focused?

What you and some of the rest of the people here are saying is essentially “if a redraft happened Ryan Leaf would be superior to Drew Brees because he had better physical tools and didn’t have the same coaching and offenses are easier now.” Yet I’m supposed to somehow posit that coaching and a mentor is somehow all that’s needed to get a player to listen to said factors? Did RG3 listen to guys like Vick back when he was tearing up the league or did his ego/maturity still ruin his career albeit just in a different way than Vick’s ego/maturity?

Like the argument that Vick is somehow bulletproof and better than Lamar because of made up hypotheticals is just one of the most nonsensical arguments that I have ever heard on this site. It literally makes no sense. It would be different if Vick was mature as a young player but just never saw the opportunity to play in a conducive offense, but even then its hypothetical, it’s not real. It’s up for debate, but not proof. In this situation the question is asking is Lamar already better than Vick? Vick has never had a season nearly as good as Lamar just had, so the answer is clearly YES. Especially considering Vick was such an inconsistent player. Just like Cam Newton is better than Vick was even if he was similarly inconsistent throughout his career. His peak ability trumped Vick’s.

Lastly, Lamar is the antithesis of the point you’re trying to make. He sat out the entire 4th quarter of the Miami game where he could’ve padded stats. He sat out like 1/4 of the third quarter through the Bengals. He sat out over half the 4th quarter of the Rams game. He sat out the entire 4th quarter of the Texans game outside of one drive that started in the 3rd quarter that he finished (IIRC). He also sat out over half the 4th quarter in the Jets game. Whereas Brady when he won the MVP stayed in the game in those blowouts the entire time so that he could surpass Mannings TD record. But let’s count it up... thats 1 1/4 games he sat out when we consider how much he sat vs stat padding. So not only are you wrong about Vick but you’re ignorant about Lamar. So I won’t argue with you further, you’ve proven to be completely ignorant in this circumstance. Have a good day!

edit: And if Lamar stayed in those games he likely easily eclipses the 50 TD mark btw... making that Vick 40 TDs still pale in comparison.

Edited January 20, 2020 by diamondbull424

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

I never said Vick didn’t improve. That’s your misguided interpretation of what I said. I noted that Vick didn’t improve until after his public shaming took away his public “IT” factor that made him nearly bullet proof regardless of how underdeveloped he was at the QB position. He was then forced to sit in a jail cell for nearly 2 years to contemplate and mature and analyze his priorities. This is when he saw his breakthrough from a mentality standpoint, not before then.

In 2020 what would stop a similarly immature Vick from repeating his same transgressions? What would stop him from not getting into his playbook and analyzing his opponents? Did Baker Mayfield similarly put the grind in his firs real NFL off season with all the distractions? Would John Harbaugh be so patient with an immature Vick when he hasn’t shown to be so patient with guys like Tim Williams who showed plenty of talent but got booted because he was a distraction and not focused?

What you and some of the rest of the people here are saying is essentially “if a redraft happened Ryan Leaf would be superior to Drew Brees because he had better physical tools and didn’t have the same coaching and offenses are easier now.” Yet I’m supposed to somehow posit that coaching and a mentor is somehow all that’s needed to get a player to listen to said factors? Did RG3 listen to guys like Vick back when he was tearing up the league or did his ego/maturity still ruin his career albeit just in a different way than Vick’s ego/maturity?

Like the argument that Vick is somehow bulletproof and better than Lamar because of made up hypotheticals is just one of the most nonsensical arguments that I have ever heard on this site. It literally makes no sense. It would be different if Vick was mature as a young player but just never saw the opportunity to play in a conducive offense, but even then its hypothetical, it’s not real. It’s up for debate, but not proof. In this situation the question is asking is Lamar already better than Vick? Vick has never had a season nearly as good as Lamar just had, so the answer is clearly YES. Especially considering Vick was such an inconsistent player. Just like Cam Newton is better than Vick was even if he was similarly inconsistent throughout his career. His peak ability trumped Vick’s.

Lastly, Lamar is the antithesis of the point you’re trying to make. He sat out the entire 4th quarter of the Miami game where he could’ve padded stats. He sat out like 1/4 of the third quarter through the Bengals. He sat out over half the 4th quarter of the Rams game. He sat out the entire 4th quarter of the Texans game outside of one drive that started in the 3rd quarter that he finished (IIRC). He also sat out over half the 4th quarter in the Jets game. Whereas Brady when he won the MVP stayed in the game in those blowouts the entire time so that he could surpass Mannings TD record. But let’s count it up... thats 1 1/4 games he sat out when we consider how much he sat vs stat padding. So not only are you wrong about Vick but you’re ignorant about Lamar. So I won’t argue with you further, you’ve proven to be completely ignorant in this circumstance. Have a good day!

Da fudge I’m not reading that whole book. Homey hell nah. All up in your feelings when you wrote that Declaration of Independence.. 

[tyler735]

It's like watching McGregor vs Cerrone all over again with Diamondbull in here destroying these poor Vick fans.

[M.10.E]

DB, don't feel the trolls, like Rammy.

It ain't worth it

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Means you’re being short sighted homey. Vick improved a ton. Contradicting what you had said. Had he played those other games he would have dropped 40 TDs in a season. Breh.. Lamar played in big blow outs when game was out of reach. That is super stat padding. You can throw 15.5 but the dude was in there when the game was secured lol. 

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Quarter	1st Qtr	64	94	30	68.09	854	8	38	0	125.0	6	-34	9.1	10.79	52	424	8.2	2	24
	2nd Qtr	67	104	37	64.42	734	13	43	3	112.7	9	-36	7.1	8.26	42	265	6.3	1	14
	3rd Qtr	76	111	35	68.47	869	8	48	1	112.0	2	-12	7.8	8.86	32	326	10.2	2	14
	4th Qtr	57	91	34	62.64	669	7	32	2	101.4	5	-20	7.4	7.90	48	187	3.9	2	19

Tell me again how most of his production came in garbage time, Rammy? Let the adults talk football. Stick to NFL Gen where you can get away with trolling.

[El Ramster]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D
Quarter	1st Qtr	64	94	30	68.09	854	8	38	0	125.0	6	-34	9.1	10.79	52	424	8.2	2	24
	2nd Qtr	67	104	37	64.42	734	13	43	3	112.7	9	-36	7.1	8.26	42	265	6.3	1	14
	3rd Qtr	76	111	35	68.47	869	8	48	1	112.0	2	-12	7.8	8.86	32	326	10.2	2	14
	4th Qtr	57	91	34	62.64	669	7	32	2	101.4	5	-20	7.4	7.90	48	187	3.9	2	19

Tell me again how most of his production came in garbage time, Rammy? Let the adults talk football. Stick to NFL Gen where you can get away with trolling.

Love how you say this. Yet you were perma banned with Harper, as your old account was SNA. The real ones know. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

10 minutes ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Love how you say this. Yet you were perma banned with Harper, as your old account was SNA. The real ones know. 

No response to the chart I posted?

[El Ramster]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

No response to the chart I posted?

There shouldn’t be a chart at all 

[El Ramster]

46 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

DB, don't feel the trolls, like Rammy.

It ain't worth it

I wouldn’t want anyone to feel up on me and I agree with that. Not sure how having an opinion is trolling.. Vick is a once in a lifetime player.. The pleasure of watching him play with forever live on.