Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?

[Hukos]

Randall Cunningham on his worst day was still a better thrower than Vick was in Atlanta.

[AkronsWitness]

12 hours ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Alge Crumpler was a baller though. 

The Crump daddy was a baller for Vick, still doesnt take away the point that the Falcons surrounded Vick with garbage compared to his play style and also consistently called an offense that tried to make him be a pocket passer instead of whateverthehell 'tebow' type offense Jackson is running in 2019-2020.

The biggest difference in Vick/Jackson is that Vick in ATL was trying to be pigeonholed into a pocket passer and Jackson in BAL has the full buy-in of the entire offense.

This is facts, not an opinion

Edited January 24, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, Hukos said:

Randall Cunningham on his worst day was still a better thrower than Vick was in Atlanta.

Yeah, well, Randall Cunningham also had over 4,000 less rushing yards than Vick did and couldnt do this:

Edited January 24, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[Hukos]

20 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The Crump daddy was a baller for Vick, still doesnt take away the point that the Falcons surrounded Vick with garbage compared to his play style and also consistently called an offense that tried to make him be a pocket passer instead of whateverthehell 'tebow' type offense Jackson is running in 2019-2020.

The biggest difference in Vick/Jackson is that Vick in ATL was trying to be pigeonholed into a pocket passer and Jackson in BAL has the full buy-in of the entire offense.

This is facts, not an opinion

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

This guy was pretty good and was available in Vick's last season in Atlanta. Or is someone who was an All-Pro WR suddenly trash? We also had good running backs and an above average offensive line back then.

 

15 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yeah, well, Randall Cunningham also had over 4,000 less rushing yards than Vick did and couldnt do this:

Vick being able to do that didn't mean anything for the Falcons though. Teams back then were able to key in on his running ability, and he couldn't punish teams in the air for focusing on it. His ability to evade defenders like that never translated into points. We'd have games where Vick had 150+ rushing yards and only score 3 points.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Hukos

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, Hukos said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRo00.htm

This guy was pretty good and was available in Vick's last season in Atlanta. Or is someone who was an All-Pro WR suddenly trash? We also had good running backs and an above average offensive line back then.

 

Vick being able to do that didn't mean anything for the Falcons though. Teams back then were able to key in on his running ability, and he couldn't punish teams in the air for focusing on it. His ability to evade defenders like that never translated into points. We'd have games where Vick had 150+ rushing yards and only score 3 points.

Again, refer to my post about how good he was in Philly. Philly Vick was the Vick the world deserved for 10+ years. Unfortunatly it was too late.

[Danand]

Vick was clearly better, just look at Lamar here, can't hit anything and he isn't even under pressure, I think he is a bust, an no one attended his birthday

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/et4tup/highlight_lamar_jackson_scores_2_points_in_the/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=c25c8d958cfc4214b9a71dfc0b53916d&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=et4tup

[Mr Bad Example]

13 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Again, refer to my post about how good he was in Philly. Philly Vick was the Vick the world deserved for 10+ years. Unfortunatly it was too late.

He was great in '10 and the rest of his time in Philly he was about the same as he was in Atl. Vick's 2010 season was the dog in a hat of his career.

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

He was great in '10 and the rest of his time in Philly he was about the same as he was in Atl. Vick's 2010 season was the dog in a hat of his career.

Huh? He also threw for 3300 yards in only 13 games in the following season in 2011. He was on Pace for a 4k yard passing seaaon. Injuries derailed the rest of his career in the 2012 season and he fell off a cliff when he was 33 years old.

I'm not saying Vick was a all time great thrower or even QB but he was much better than a lot of people are making it out to be. I'll chalk it up to Lamar Jackson recency bias

Edited January 24, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[tyler735]

39 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Huh? He also threw for 3300 yards in only 13 games in the following season in 2011. He was on Pace for a 4k yard passing seaaon. Injuries derailed the rest of his career in the 2012 season and he fell off a cliff when he was 33 years old.

I'm not saying Vick was a all time great thrower or even QB but he was much better than a lot of people are making it out to be. I'll chalk it up to Lamar Jackson recency bias

I mean it's really not impressive when you factor in he only had 18 passing touchdowns (4.3 td %), and 14 interceptions (3.3 int %) in 2011 with an 84.9 QB Rating. He also only had 1 rushing touchdown in 2011. In an Andy Reid offense, those are concerning numbers. 

Just for some context, Jamies Winston just threw for 5,109 yards, 33 passing touchdowns (5.3 td %), and 30 interceptions (4.8 int %), and he is very much a question mark to be Tampa's starting QB next season despite throwing for a lot of yards.

[Heinz D.]

Yes.

[Hukos]

22 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Again, refer to my post about how good he was in Philly. Philly Vick was the Vick the world deserved for 10+ years. Unfortunatly it was too late.

I get the point you're making, but the point that "2010 Vick was pretty good" is not the same point as "Vick had no help in Atlanta." Was it the wrong kind of help for the system he needed? Possibly. Those early 2000's Falcons teams had some talent, albeit misplaced and misused. The 2007 team went 4-12, but they immediately went back to the playoffs and stayed there for four of the next five seasons and some pieces of the 2004-2006 era Falcons were a part of that. Roddy White flourishing into a legitimate #1 option at WR helps to prove that point.

I'm not going to say that the coaching staff in those years was amazing or anything, or that they didn't fail Vick. But there was definitely guys who could play on the team, even if they weren't at super flashy positions. Tyson Clabo and Todd McClure were fantastic offensive linemen during those years, and the early parts of the Mike Smith era. John Abraham was a legitimate #1 pass rusher. Jonathon Babineux was a great, albeit underappreciated Defensive Tackle (who absolutely should have gotten his ring in 2016 but that's neither here nor there). You can argue these pieces were misused, hence why Jim Mora Jr. failed Vick and the Falcons. However, Mike Smith was not exactly a genius coach (he was quite mediocre, to the contrary) and yet he got a lot more of these pieces. Why is that?

And so that I'm not misrepresented - I'm happy for Vick that he's turned his life around. Extremely happy. A lot of men in his position wouldn't be offered that kind of opportunity and he made the most of it (post-jail that is). When I watched Vick as a young Falcons fan, I wanted nothing more than for him to succeed. But as I'm older, I also have to remember how much bad there was during the Vick years and those bad memories are more glaring than Vick's highlights for me. That fact that Vick made some very pretty runs doesn't change the fact that the Falcons were nothing short of a mess while he was there.

Lamar Jackson is taking advantage of the great situation he's in, as well he should. Thing is, in my eyes, he's already surpassed Vick and is doing all the things people hyped us up for... and then some.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Hukos

[diamondbull424]

On 1/20/2020 at 1:56 PM, M.10.E said:

DB, don't feel the trolls, like Rammy.

It ain't worth it

 

On 1/20/2020 at 2:44 PM, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

I wouldn’t want anyone to feel up on me and I agree with that. Not sure how having an opinion is trolling.. Vick is a once in a lifetime player.. The pleasure of watching him play with forever live on. 

Imagine dissing someone else’s grammar in a post, to only make a similar grammatical error in your response post. Must be quite embarrassing. 😂 

[diamondbull424]

On 1/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, wackywabbit said:

Stats and facts are for losers.

 

On 1/22/2020 at 12:45 AM, AkronsWitness said:

You also have to take into fact that the NFL was completely different when the boom of Vick happened in the early 2000s.

When Vick was playing, top 5-10 QB seasons were around 3500 yards passing and 25 TDs. Currently in the Lamar era offensive numbers look completely different. There are 10 guys who passed over 4,000 yards, some at 5,000 and a bunch of 30+ TD passers.The offensive numbers in this current era are much more inflated than of the early 2000s because of rule changes, penalties, schemes, evolution of the game, ect.

The game was completely different when Vick played compared to Jackson therefore looking at their statistics as the sole basis for whose better doesn't paint the actual picture.

 

I don’t think you read the preceding point this was contesting. The stats in question that is being referred to here wasn’t Lamar vs Vick stats... it’s that Lamar accumulated the bulk of his production in garbage time. So while I’m sure I could contest this argument, there’s no point as it’s a strawman that isn’t referring to the point being contested by the comment @wackywabbit was referring to in response to @AFlaccoSeagulls point about his stats not being countered.

[JAF-N72EX]

Lamar has been in the league for 2 years and has had 1 terrible rookie year and 1 good year.......and this thread has gone on for 18 pages, why?!

Jesus christ, this is a perfect example of FF's constant short-term memory and recency bias. Some of you just cannot wait to anoint the next best thing, can you?  

[Hukos]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Lamar has been in the league for 2 years and has had 1 terrible rookie year and 1 good year.......and this thread has gone on for 18 pages, why?!

Jesus christ, this is a perfect example of FF's constant short-term memory and recency bias. Some of you just cannot wait to anoint the next best thing, can you?  

I watched every single game that Vick played in a Falcons uniform, I think that qualifies as not being short-term memory. Vick was a ton of hype, but not much action. I don't get to see too many Ravens games, but from what I've seen of Jackson, he's already well beyond Vick's ability as a passer.