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Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?

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On 11/11/2019 at 11:16 PM, -Hope- said:

it sure seems like it. i want to ask this though, because i genuinely don't know- i was just about old enough during vick's ATL prime to appreciate it, but way too young to comprehend anything about offensive systems or whatever. did the falcons scheme around vick like the ravens have done so successfully with lamar? i would guess that they didn't just based on what NFL offenses were back in the day. 

Not even close.

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The Falcons didn’t use Vick as much as an RPO QB. If they did...Jackson wouldn’t even be close as a runner. Vick is easily the greatest runner ever at QB. 
 

Jackson appears to be more accurate than Vick...Vick had a cannon for an arm but didn’t have great touch. I have a feeling that Jackson’s RPO opens up the passing game and without it he’d likely lot look any better than Vick. 

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14 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

We thought what Mahomes was doing was unsustainable too but look at him this year. 

No we didn’t. Who is we? It was pretty clear that Mahomes was going to be an elite passer in his second season. Jackson is running the ball at an unprecedented rate...and it’s opening up the rest of his game...there is just no way that he’s going to be able to run like this for long without injury. 

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Vick was the better runner.  He could throw the ball harder, but he wasn't all that accurate.  Jackson is probably a better overall passer.  If I had to choose between the two, I would go with Jackson because I think his overall skill set gives him a higher ceiling.

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15 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Yes but he was passing over 300 yds a game and had 50 passing touchdowns in his first full year. 

Thats extraordinary. People thought it was unsustainable but he’s having a pretty good encore 

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. 

I'm saying based upon the physical toll, what Lamar Jackson is doing/being schemed to do running the football 10-20 times a game to the tune of 1,250 yards isn't physically sustainable over a 5-10 year period of time, not just from a "statistical standpoint".

Eventually, it's likely he gets hit hard, sprains an ankle, hurts his knee, the hits catch up to him (Cam Newton), etc.

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6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. 

I'm saying based upon the physical toll, what Lamar Jackson is doing/being schemed to do running the football 10-20 times a game to the tune of 1,250 yards isn't physically sustainable over a 5-10 year period of time, not just from a "statistical standpoint".

Eventually, it's likely he gets hit hard, sprains an ankle, hurts his knee, the hits catch up to him (Cam Newton), etc.

Cam Newton played 8 seasons before getting seriously hurt (shoulder, which was from a hit in the pocket). The hardest hits QBs take are in the pocket.

This narrative sucks. Every player is one bad hit away from getting hurt. Just let the kid play football and stop thinking about what could happen. Players evolve over their careers. He's going to run less and pass more as he gets older, it'd be DUMB to not let him play his game right now.

Lamar Jackson is one of a kind, so treat him that way.

Edited by M.10.E

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*Double Checks Profile*

*Sees that he's a Ravens fan*

*Doesn't engage*

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56 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

*Double Checks Profile*

*Sees that he's a Ravens fan*

*Doesn't engage*

You did more research for this useless post than you did for the one above. Congrats.

 

Edit: OHHHH you're a Browns fan. This makes sense now, carry on.

Edited by M.10.E

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3 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

The Falcons didn’t use Vick as much as an RPO QB. If they did...Jackson wouldn’t even be close as a runner. Vick is easily the greatest runner ever at QB. 
 

Jackson appears to be more accurate than Vick...Vick had a cannon for an arm but didn’t have great touch. I have a feeling that Jackson’s RPO opens up the passing game and without it he’d likely lot look any better than Vick. 

I watched Vick too and this is untrue. Vick was absolutely fast, but Lamar is stronger and more durable. Vick in college couldn’t last a full collegiate season with his play style and the same was true in the NFL. If you open him up to more hits, he’s not lasting. That and while Vick was probably SLIGHTLY faster, Lamar has better agility and open field moves to make guys miss.

Just comparing purely their RB ability Vick was more like Chris Johnson (only not as fast) while Lamar’s is more LaDainian Tomlinson/Priest Holmes... though historically the Gale Sayers comparison seems very apt.

Edited by diamondbull424

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44 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

*Double Checks Profile*

*Sees that he's a Ravens fan*

*Doesn't engage*

You can refuse to engage but you're still clearly clinging to a narrative of unsustainability based around injury that is simply bogus at this point.

Yes, he runs 10-15 times a game. He takes "notable" hits on about 2-3 of them, maybe, a game. That's no more than if he were strictly a pocket passer unable to allude pressure who was getting crunched in the pocket.

How many QBs have gotten hurt this year? Now how many of them are the prototypical "pocket passer"? Nearly all of them. That's the facts. Playing QB in the NFL at all is an injury risk. But you would never say "What Foles/Roethlisberger/Brees/Ryan/Brisett are doing is unsustainable because they'll get hurt". But they did. Because players get injured - regardless of style. Especially QBs.

It's very clear that what's happened over the course of this season is you and your fellow Browns fans who mocked Lamar all offseason and swore up and down he was "figured out" and "couldn't throw" are clinging to dear life to anything that may eventually help those horrendous takes you all had.

First it was "yes he's playing great, but look who he's played".towards the beginning of the year.

Then he beat great teams.

Then it was "yes he's beating good teams but Russell is still far and away the MVP - Lamar isn't on an MVP level"

Then he became the betting favorite for MVP.

Now, it's "well, he runs a lot, and that's unsustainable because he'll get hurt".

But he hasn't. While other "prototypical" QBs are getting hurt at what seems to be a close to historic rate.

Keep hoping, though. I would too if I were some members of that fanbase right about now.

And if you're going to do what you always do when you lose an argument and say "Oh GOSH Ravens fans!" or "lolzzzz NFL GEN for ya!" don't bother.

Burying your head in the sand won't make this go away.

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Give me a running QB in the NFL that has had any type of longevity/sustainability on playing 16 quality games/made a career of running and being successful at it. I'll wait. 

I like how I started off by saying things like "what he's doing is unprecedented/fantastic" and he's putting up "Video Game Numbers" and that my major critique over the course of his career is that "I don't think it's sustainable" and then the Ravens trolls come out of the woodworks as though I'm a hater/being unreasonable. 

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3 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

Jackson appears to be more accurate than Vick...Vick had a cannon for an arm but didn’t have great touch. I have a feeling that Jackson’s RPO opens up the passing game and without it he’d likely lot look any better than Vick. 

Even with that Vick’s accuracy and ball placement was not on Lamar’s level. That has nothing to do with the RPOs. Sure that may open things up. But just in terms of ball placement and delivering very catchable passes, he’s light years ahead of Vick. Even on non-RPO plays Lamar drops dimes.

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