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Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?


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On 12/1/2019 at 1:20 PM, Yin-Yang said:

It’s distance and velocity. I don’t think release (as in high, side, etc.) is a talent as much as I believe it’s a mechanic. You can change a mechanic, I don’t think you can improve arm talent (anymore than you can change speed - in that you could make improvements, but your capped athletically. For instance I will never be as fast as Michael Vick even if I work x100 harder than he ever did...). 

Huh? Isn’t this a Lamar/Vick thread? 

It is. But I’m talking about athleticism of some of the most athletic runners of the football in recent memory. So I wanted to watch all these guys to get a good grip on the speed of guys like Vick in comparison to other talented runners and generate some sort of context.

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On 12/1/2019 at 1:01 PM, diamondbull424 said:

But why? Throwing the ball far is talent. But adjusting arm angles is also talent. That’s not a normal thing all QBs do. Both have their limited uses in the game of football. Probably a few passes a game can benefit from a rocket deep pass or a side arm pass to evade a defender. The rocket arm will look better on highlights though, while adjusting an angle to eliminate a DL from knocking down the pass is probably a bit more useful and effective on a play to play basis. So even if I gave Vick the advantage, it would be very minimal.

In terms of athleticism, completely disagree. Just spent nearly an hour looking up highlights of speed demons of past and present such as Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, RG3, Kyler Murray, Jamaal Charles, Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson, Darren McFadden, CMC, Dalvin Cook. All players you would imagine to be in a “similar enough” speed category.

Vick and Bush looked nearly identical in both speed and suddenness. Vick had slightly more acceleration. Bush had slightly better contact balance and a far superior moveset. CMC was definitely the most sudden, he could shake butter out of the wrapping. CMC and Kyler Murray look about similarly fast, just Murray has those really short strides. Murray isn’t as sudden as CMC, probably closer in that regard to Cook. Cook looks slightly faster than CMC, would put RG3 in a similar speed category to Cook. Cook looked similarly sudden and explosive (acceleration to top speed) as Charles. In terms of breakaway speed I would put Lamar in the same category as Peterson, typically guys aren’t running them down like I’ve seen with some of these other runners. I see Lamar as the second most sudden (ability to stop on a dime at high speeds) of these players to CMC. RG3 had good speed, but had easily the worst acceleration and the worst suddenness of these runners. Lamar and Darren McFadden look to have a similar speed and stride. McFadden just didn’t seem to have the same long speed consistently as Peterson and Jackson.

All in all if I had to crown someone the most “overall fast” (I mean speed is a wide ranging category) than I would give it to Jamaal Charles. He was Dalvin Cook with more deep speed. But in second place I would have Lamar because of the combination between speed, flexibility, and suddenness. Then both Adrian Peterson and CMC make compelling cases. Then Reggie Bush and Vick are nearly identical to my eyes as runners. Next I would have Cook. Then I would go with McFadden and Kyler. Lastly RG3. It’s all very close and obviously subjective, but that’s how I would personally stack it up.

Devin Hester was the fastest player I think of all time. Man was he annoying!

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Sorry but I'd still take Vick, especially if we are talking about playing in the current NFL.

The main difference between the two IMO, is Coaching. Harbaugh has completely adapted his offense to fit what Lamar does well. The entire coaching staff for years in  Atlanta didn't care about Vick the QB because they had Vick the Athlete. 1 read and taking off was encouraged. 

You swap players, coaches and Era's , I honestly dont know if Lamar survives. 

 

 

Edited by Nabbs4u
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Lamar's already had a better passing season than Vick's ever had (regardless of team) and he's about to surpass his best rushing season very shortly IN THE SAME SEASON.

He's the odds on favorite to win MVP.

Are we waiting for him to walk on water before we end this thread?

*insert shrug emoji*

 

 

Edited by M.10.E
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54 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Lamar's already had a better passing season than Vick's ever had (regardless of team) and he's about to surpass his best rushing season very shortly IN THE SAME SEASON.

He's the odds on favorite to win MVP.

Are we waiting for him to walk on water before we end this thread?

*insert shrug emoji*

 

 

Agreed there is no comparison at this point. Lamar Jackson is undoubtedly better than Michael Vick. Doesn't matter if hypothetically Vick was playing today, or Lamar Jackson was playing back when Vick played for the Falcons. Lamar Jackson is simply put just a better football player than Vick ever was.

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11 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Agreed there is no comparison at this point. Lamar Jackson is undoubtedly better than Michael Vick. Doesn't matter if hypothetically Vick was playing today, or Lamar Jackson was playing back when Vick played for the Falcons. Lamar Jackson is simply put just a better football player than Vick ever was.

Right... after a while it gets to a point where it’s like... what are we even talking about here lol... The guy leads the league in passing TDs from the pocket while also rushing for nearly the single season record on 4 less games... and let’s not forget the probability that if not for massive blowouts causing him to miss a full games worth of time against competition in which he put up his best numbers this season he would already have surpassed the record. Lamar is closer to Steve Young than Vick and he doesn’t have Jerry Rice or TO

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1 hour ago, BullsandBroncos said:

Can't wait for Josh Allen to smash Lamar in the playoffs.

It’s gonna be a while cause the bills losing first game they play in the postseason this year and  we not playing in the divisional round sooooooo.... I’m pretty certain ur dream is more than just merely impossible... it’s nearly blasphemous... #StephenA voice... lol

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23 hours ago, bmorecareful said:

It’s gonna be a while cause the bills losing first game they play in the postseason this year and  we not playing in the divisional round sooooooo.... I’m pretty certain ur dream is more than just merely impossible... it’s nearly blasphemous... #StephenA voice... lol

You don't catch on fast.

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I'd take Lamar right now over the Atlanta version of Michael Vick.  Lamar is a better passer.  Vick was a more electric rusher.  The biggest thing that separates the two is that I believe Lamar has a better head on his shoulders and a better work ethic.  After Vick left Atlanta, he admitted that he really didn't work very hard at his craft, even after having been given a $100M contract.  I don't know that much about Lamar, but what I've seen of him in interviews, he doesn't seem to be the type who would be that ungrateful.  I think the sky is the limit for Lamar. 

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