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Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?


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47 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

-Can you honestly say Lamar Jackson can go to Andy Reid's offense and be a primarily pocket passer and be successful in this league? We already know the answer

1. Lamar would be probably be awesome in the Chiefs offense. It'd be a massive upgrade for the receiving roles Jackson had success throwing to. I strongly believe the Ravens will continue to add more super fast guys to go along with Hollywood and model after the Chiefs there.

2. As @BaltimoreTerp said, you were so far off in what you said about Lamar last offseason that you should probably sit out this topic for a couple years and see how it unfolds.

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6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

-The difference between Reid and Roman is that Reid utilizes 5 offensive threats, WR,WR,WR,TE,RB, whereas Roman uses 6 WR,WR,TE,TE,RB,QB. My point is, Vick never had the opportunity to have an OC feature his skills like Roman features Jackson's, Vick evolved into a pocket passer and lasted for 13 years because of it.

You’re not wrong, but that doesn’t make Vick a better player. Again, you’re speaking of hypotheticals as given facts.

6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

-Can you honestly say Lamar Jackson can go to Andy Reid's offense and be a primarily pocket passer and be successful in this league? We already know the answer

See above. 

6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

-And lets be real, they had the #3 offense in the league, so lets not act like he wasn't effective in Philadelphia....

Who said not effective? I said he was a mediocre passer for his career. 2010 Philly was an anomaly. 

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Welp, he eventually did learn how to become a pocket passer, that's a leg up on Jackson

You gonna back anything up, or nah?

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Along with Scar, I watched every game Vick played in Atlanta. Lamar Jackson is who Vick was supposed to be, at least how it was presented to us. Vick was never really up to that level. You saw some flashes of being able to function how people thought he always should have (2006 vs. Steelers, @ Bengals, vs. Cowboys) but he was never consistently at that kind of level. People that watched him play a lot in those days keep telling you he wasn't that great.

The most damning thing about Vick is that Roddy White really became a great WR shortly after Vick left Atlanta. Roddy White was a top 5 WR for about 2008-2012, so it's not like there was nobody to throw to (which is a narrative that constantly gets repeated). In 2006, people thought Roddy White was a pure bonefide bust. A few years later, Roddy White earned an All-Pro selection. Lamar isn't perfect, but at least Hollywood Brown looks like a legit WR and he and Jackson seem to have some really good chemistry going. If Vick was this stealth great pocket passer, then explain Roddy's growth in the interim period between the Vick era Falcons and the Matt Ryan era Falcons. And Matt Ryan was considered a good, not great QB in those years, it wasn't really until 2012 and beyond that he hit his stride as a QB. So was Matt that much better or was Vick and/or the system just that bad?

Edited by Hukos
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16 hours ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

Lol are you really just gonna spend a whole new offseason being hilariously wrong about Lamar all over again 

I'm not wrong at all, I'm just not a fan boy like you all are. Being a one read QB (Andrews) does not constitute being a pocket QB, sorry.....

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15 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

1. Lamar would be probably be awesome in the Chiefs offense. It'd be a massive upgrade for the receiving roles Jackson had success throwing to. I strongly believe the Ravens will continue to add more super fast guys to go along with Hollywood and model after the Chiefs there.

2. As @BaltimoreTerp said, you were so far off in what you said about Lamar last offseason that you should probably sit out this topic for a couple years and see how it unfolds.

My thing is, you already have speedy weapon in Hollywood Brown, and in most cases, he should be the Tyreek Hill of your offense if he had a QB that could threaten defenses vertically, Its apparent that, this isn't Jackson's strong suit, which makes him a wasted pick IMO. Also what would be the point of having all of those weapons in KC if he can't properly utilize them? They would be dynamic from the standpoint of being better running the ball with the threat of Jackson running, but trust me, they will have 8 in the box and take their chances as opposed to having 2 safetys deep at all times in fear of being beat deep at any time. 

I don't need to sit anything out, I coach in real life, I know what my eyes see, the difference is, I'm not jaded by fandom. I see things objectively, and TBH, I haven't been saying anything that isn't unfair. The only things I have been questioning is his arm strength and his ability to win from the pocket, that's a fair criticism....

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16 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

You’re not wrong, but that doesn’t make Vick a better player. Again, you’re speaking of hypotheticals as given facts.

See above. 

Who said not effective? I said he was a mediocre passer for his career. 2010 Philly was an anomaly. 

You gonna back anything up, or nah?

Ill concede that Vick may not be better but I will say that they may be even just because of his time in Atlanta, we was just winging it and not studying his playbook, he still was able to have an 11-4 record with a  PLAYOFF WIN with a middle of the road scoring offense and a middle of the road defense

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59 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm not wrong at all, I'm just not a fan boy like you all are. Being a one read QB (Andrews) does not constitute being a pocket QB, sorry.....

It sounds like you are a huge Vick fan boy in this thread that can't stand the fact that Jackson is essentially everything Vick was supposed to be, but instead Vick couldn't live up to his own hype.

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18 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Disrespectful is assuming Vick didn't pay attention and worked at his craft without any tangible evidence....

“This time around I just wanted to work harder than I ever worked before, not shortchange myself,” Vick said. “I didn’t put in the hard work and the time and the effort. I didn’t dedicate myself the way I do now … I feel like I cheated the organization. I didn’t give them my all. I gave them everything on the field, 100%, but sometimes that’s not enough.”

 

His exact words. Please stop with this nonsense. I don't spout nonsense like you have been doing.

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2 minutes ago, scar988 said:

“This time around I just wanted to work harder than I ever worked before, not shortchange myself,” Vick said. “I didn’t put in the hard work and the time and the effort. I didn’t dedicate myself the way I do now … I feel like I cheated the organization. I didn’t give them my all. I gave them everything on the field, 100%, but sometimes that’s not enough.”

 

His exact words. Please stop with this nonsense. I don't spout nonsense like you have been doing.

Oh ok, cool

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12 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

It sounds like you are a huge Vick fan boy in this thread that can't stand the fact that Jackson is essentially everything Vick was supposed to be, but instead Vick couldn't live up to his own hype.

Not a fan boy at all but I don't live in recency bias either. I just not afraid to say that Jackson isn't perfect, unlike a lot of you here.

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16 hours ago, Hukos said:

Along with Scar, I watched every game Vick played in Atlanta. Lamar Jackson is who Vick was supposed to be, at least how it was presented to us. Vick was never really up to that level. You saw some flashes of being able to function how people thought he always should have (2006 vs. Steelers, @ Bengals, vs. Cowboys) but he was never consistently at that kind of level. People that watched him play a lot in those days keep telling you he wasn't that great.

The most damning thing about Vick is that Roddy White really became a great WR shortly after Vick left Atlanta. Roddy White was a top 5 WR for about 2008-2012, so it's not like there was nobody to throw to (which is a narrative that constantly gets repeated). In 2006, people thought Roddy White was a pure bonefide bust. A few years later, Roddy White earned an All-Pro selection. Lamar isn't perfect, but at least Hollywood Brown looks like a legit WR and he and Jackson seem to have some really good chemistry going. If Vick was this stealth great pocket passer, then explain Roddy's growth in the interim period between the Vick era Falcons and the Matt Ryan era Falcons. And Matt Ryan was considered a good, not great QB in those years, it wasn't really until 2012 and beyond that he hit his stride as a QB. So was Matt that much better or was Vick and/or the system just that bad?

This is a good point. Though, Roddy admitted that he didn't have a good example on how to work hard until Joe Horn got to Atlanta in 2007. When Ryan got to Atlanta, he's been the epitome of a hard working QB and his WRs have all produced well. 700+ yards in a season guys since Matt Ryan got to Atlanta:

Roddy White

Tony Gonzalez

Julio Jones

Calvin Ridley

Mohamed Sanu

Michael Jenkins

Harry Douglas

Austin Hooper

Sure, he has his primary guys, but he's 10000 x the leader Vick ever was in Atlanta.

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18 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

1. Lamar would be probably be awesome in the Chiefs offense. It'd be a massive upgrade for the receiving roles Jackson had success throwing to. I strongly believe the Ravens will continue to add more super fast guys to go along with Hollywood and model after the Chiefs there.

2. As @BaltimoreTerp said, you were so far off in what you said about Lamar last offseason that you should probably sit out this topic for a couple years and see how it unfolds.

Is this Paravens primary/second account?

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2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm not wrong at all, I'm just not a fan boy like you all are. Being a one read QB (Andrews) does not constitute being a pocket QB, sorry.....

And sorry, but you are obviously just trolling, blind or ignorant.

Lamar has put his ability to go through his reads on display many times. 

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2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I'm not wrong at all, I'm just not a fan boy like you all are. Being a one read QB (Andrews) does not constitute being a pocket QB, sorry.....

Man stop trying to pretend you're some brave truth teller just because you keep saying patently false and incorrect things out of what can only be described at this point as some weird vendetta against Lamar. You're just throwing everything out there seeing what sticks.  Like, of all things, we're going to pretend Lamar is a 'one-read' QB now? Give me a break. There are things he can work at with his accuracy, particularly as it relates to the way he can sail his throws when he gets flustered/frustrated within games. But if you actually pretended to evaluate Lamar on any level that isn't just you trying to interpret literally everything he does in the most negative manner possible then you wouldn't be trying to get by with crap like that. One thing he pretty consistently showed was a desire and ability to work his way through his progressions to identify and keep his eyes downfield to integrate the bit-players like Boyle/Snead/etc. into the game, and he also showed a lot of promise in using his eyes to manipulate/bait defenders into creating passing lanes (the Rams game is a particularly good example of that). The mental stuff with him has been fantastic, and for the most part when he does make mistakes it will come down to physical/mechanical issues instead. If anything you'll find there are Ravens fans who think he's stubborn about working through his reads and not willingly scrambling with open running lanes  unless it's a last resort. 

Edited by BaltimoreTerp
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2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

My thing is, you already have speedy weapon in Hollywood Brown, and in most cases, he should be the Tyreek Hill of your offense if he had a QB that could threaten defenses vertically, Its apparent that, this isn't Jackson's strong suit, which makes him a wasted pick IMO. Also what would be the point of having all of those weapons in KC if he can't properly utilize them? They would be dynamic from the standpoint of being better running the ball with the threat of Jackson running, but trust me, they will have 8 in the box and take their chances as opposed to having 2 safetys deep at all times in fear of being beat deep at any time. 

I don't need to sit anything out, I coach in real life, I know what my eyes see, the difference is, I'm not jaded by fandom. I see things objectively, and TBH, I haven't been saying anything that isn't unfair. The only things I have been questioning is his arm strength and his ability to win from the pocket, that's a fair criticism....

If you coach in real life, you are 100% bad at it with your lack of ability to recognize/see talent.

I feel sorry for whoever you try to coach.

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