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Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?


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1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

^^ Sigh.......you can't fix stupid.

So you say we should stop trying explaining to you, how you are wrong and doesn't understand things?

We are a helpful bunch, but if you wan't to throw in the towel because easy stuff is too difficult for you to comprehend, then I guess we have to accept it.

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On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 12:01 AM, JustAnotherFan said:

Flacco....well damn, don't raise the bar too high now. Hell, why stop there. Why not go as far as to say he played better than Al Bundy too while you're at it.

That said are you just going to ignore the fact that Lamar played a MUCH easier defensive schedule than Flacco did? 5 out of 7 games that Lamar started in were against some of the worst defenses in the league. 

The average opponent defensive DVOA for Flacco was -1.8%, and the average DVOA for Lamar was +6.0%. A negative is bad for the defense. A +6.0% would have been good for 26th in the league last year. Likewise, a negative number is good for defenses and -1.8 % would have been good for 13th in the league. 

The defense, special teams, and the easy schedule were far more of the reason the team went 6-1 than Lamar was .

Here is a list of all defenses that Lamar played against. 5 teams were in the bottom 7.

Week 11, Bengals - Ranked 26th in DVOA before the game and 28th in weighted DVOA. Finished 28th in the league.

Week 12, Raiders - 29th before the game and 29th in WDVOA. Finished 30th in the league.

Week 13, Falcons -  32nd before the game and 32nd in WDVOA. Finished 31st in the league.

Week 14, Chiefs - 26th before the game and 21st in WDVOA. Finished 26th in the league. 

Week 15, Bucs - 30th before the game and 28th in WDVOA. Finished 32nd in the league.

Week 16, Chargers - 12th before the game and 8th in WDVOA. Finished 8th in the league.

Week 17, Browns - 11th before the game and 14th in WDVOA. Finished 12th in the league.

Yeah, that's terrible.

It's funny you bring up this game considering that you lost that game because of Lamar! It should have never gone into OT in the first place.

The defense did their part by holding the best offense in the league to 1 TD in the 2nd half. Special teams did their part with ~55 yard return in OT to set the offense up on the 20-ish yard line with 45 seconds left (KC w/ 2 TOs left), putting the team in a perfect position to run the clock and win the game--especially with a kicker like Tucker. 

But instead, Lamar fumbles the ball in the backfield because he didn't feel the pressure coming at all. Yeah, that's terrible. 

Seriously, this is the best that you can come up with? There was literally only a 5 game difference between the two, and they both had an entire offseason. If 5 games is a deciding factor for you then you are clearly being either a major homer (which is no doubt the case here) or you are a big hypocrite when judging QB's. Mitch only had 12 games in college and was starting with a brand new offense with an entirely different staff---Lamar wasn't. But none of that mattered to you when you were judging another player who wasn't the QB of your favorite team though, did it. But now all of a sudden those small little intricacies matter.......hmm, I wonder why. 

LOL. Yeah, it's garbage when children resort to elementary retorts all because you have your head(s) so far up Lamar's *** and I'm not kissing it, and you're pouting like a baby because of it. Grow up, son.

--it's even more garbage to claim that I am somehow downplaying Lamar when this is literally the very first time I have ever commented about him whatsoever on here in the last 2 years. And the only negative thing I said was that he was a trash QB last year, and even said the situation wasn't the best either.   

 --It's even more garbage when you can't seem to comprehend something so simple, like my initial post on the subject, even after it's been spelled out to you twice already. 

--It's even more garbage that I have had to spend this much time on this considering my initial post was neither a knock or praise about lamar, whatsoever. 

Here, I'll try to explain this again to you for third, and last time, in a way so simple that not even you can possibly not understand.

People on this forum have a bad habit of overreacting about a player (for or against) based on only 1 game/season. If a player has 1 good or bad game/season then it's automatically a forgone conclusion that player is what he is at that point and there is no room for growth or decline. This is ridiculous on so many different levels, especially when that ignorant short-sighted thought process gets proven wrong so many times every single year. But because some people can't seem to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, they allow the news and social media to tell them how/what to think.

Lamar has been in the league for 2 years with only 22 games under his belt as a starter with mixed results (aka as a passer---you know, the most important aspect of being a quarterback). So nobody should be claiming that he trash just like nobody should be claiming that he is the next best thing. 

But, hey, I'm just hater right.  Even though I have no reason to be biased at all. Nor have I offered any overall opinion on Lamar, at all, at any point in time on this forum. 

Here's another mind-blowing fact that you don't know since you seem to have all figured out with your panties in a bunch. My second favorite team in the league is the Ravens since I watched Ray Lewis' entire career since college. Plus, most of my family are Steelers fans and I get heckled for being Bears fan and have to constantly hear about their accomplishments (I HATE the Steelers because of this). So if there was ever a time that I chose to be biased, it certainly wouldn't be against the Ravens. 

This is obviously a you problem. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/2/2020 at 12:01 AM, JustAnotherFan said:

Flacco....well damn, don't raise the bar too high now. Hell, why stop there. Why not go as far as to say he played better than Al Bundy too while you're at it.

That said are you just going to ignore the fact that Lamar played a MUCH easier defensive schedule than Flacco did? 5 out of 7 games that Lamar started in were against some of the worst defenses in the league. 

The average opponent defensive DVOA for Flacco was -1.8%, and the average DVOA for Lamar was +6.0%. A negative is bad for the defense. A +6.0% would have been good for 26th in the league last year. Likewise, a negative number is good for defenses and -1.8 % would have been good for 13th in the league. 

The defense, special teams, and the easy schedule were far more of the reason the team went 6-1 than Lamar was .

Here is a list of all defenses that Lamar played against. 5 teams were in the bottom 7.

Week 11, Bengals - Ranked 26th in DVOA before the game and 28th in weighted DVOA. Finished 28th in the league.

Week 12, Raiders - 29th before the game and 29th in WDVOA. Finished 30th in the league.

Week 13, Falcons -  32nd before the game and 32nd in WDVOA. Finished 31st in the league.

Week 14, Chiefs - 26th before the game and 21st in WDVOA. Finished 26th in the league. 

Week 15, Bucs - 30th before the game and 28th in WDVOA. Finished 32nd in the league.

Week 16, Chargers - 12th before the game and 8th in WDVOA. Finished 8th in the league.

Week 17, Browns - 11th before the game and 14th in WDVOA. Finished 12th in the league.

Yeah, that's terrible.

It's funny you bring up this game considering that you lost that game because of Lamar! It should have never gone into OT in the first place.

The defense did their part by holding the best offense in the league to 1 TD in the 2nd half. Special teams did their part with ~55 yard return in OT to set the offense up on the 20-ish yard line with 45 seconds left (KC w/ 2 TOs left), putting the team in a perfect position to run the clock and win the game--especially with a kicker like Tucker. 

But instead, Lamar fumbles the ball in the backfield because he didn't feel the pressure coming at all. Yeah, that's terrible. 

Seriously, this is the best that you can come up with? There was literally only a 5 game difference between the two, and they both had an entire offseason. If 5 games is a deciding factor for you then you are clearly being either a major homer (which is no doubt the case here) or you are a big hypocrite when judging QB's. Mitch only had 12 games in college and was starting with a brand new offense with an entirely different staff---Lamar wasn't. But none of that mattered to you when you were judging another player who wasn't the QB of your favorite team though, did it. But now all of a sudden those small little intricacies matter.......hmm, I wonder why. 

LOL. Yeah, it's garbage when children resort to elementary retorts all because you have your head(s) so far up Lamar's *** and I'm not kissing it, and you're pouting like a baby because of it. Grow up, son.

--it's even more garbage to claim that I am somehow downplaying Lamar when this is literally the very first time I have ever commented about him whatsoever on here in the last 2 years. And the only negative thing I said was that he was a trash QB last year, and even said the situation wasn't the best either.   

 --It's even more garbage when you can't seem to comprehend something so simple, like my initial post on the subject, even after it's been spelled out to you twice already. 

--It's even more garbage that I have had to spend this much time on this considering my initial post was neither a knock or praise about lamar, whatsoever. 

Here, I'll try to explain this again to you for third, and last time, in a way so simple that not even you can possibly not understand.

People on this forum have a bad habit of overreacting about a player (for or against) based on only 1 game/season. If a player has 1 good or bad game/season then it's automatically a forgone conclusion that player is what he is at that point and there is no room for growth or decline. This is ridiculous on so many different levels, especially when that ignorant short-sighted thought process gets proven wrong so many times every single year. But because some people can't seem to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, they allow the news and social media to tell them how/what to think.

Lamar has been in the league for 2 years with only 22 games under his belt as a starter with mixed results (aka as a passer---you know, the most important aspect of being a quarterback). So nobody should be claiming that he trash just like nobody should be claiming that he is the next best thing. 

But, hey, I'm just hater right.  Even though I have no reason to be biased at all. Nor have I offered any overall opinion on Lamar, at all, at any point in time on this forum. 

Here's another mind-blowing fact that you don't know since you seem to have all figured out with your panties in a bunch. My second favorite team in the league is the Ravens since I watched Ray Lewis' entire career since college. Plus, most of my family are Steelers fans and I get heckled for being Bears fan and have to constantly hear about their accomplishments (I HATE the Steelers because of this). So if there was ever a time that I chose to be biased, it certainly wouldn't be against the Ravens. 

This is obviously a you problem. 

^This sure is a whole lot of text to type without getting to an opinion on Lamar

No one should be claiming Lamar is the next big thing, because there is no "next" about it. He's already a big thing. Having an MVP season makes you a big thing. He's probably like the 2nd-5th biggest thing in the nfl right now.

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:20 PM, Hukos said:

Along with Scar, I watched every game Vick played in Atlanta. Lamar Jackson is who Vick was supposed to be, at least how it was presented to us. Vick was never really up to that level. You saw some flashes of being able to function how people thought he always should have (2006 vs. Steelers, @ Bengals, vs. Cowboys) but he was never consistently at that kind of level. People that watched him play a lot in those days keep telling you he wasn't that great.

The most damning thing about Vick is that Roddy White really became a great WR shortly after Vick left Atlanta. Roddy White was a top 5 WR for about 2008-2012, so it's not like there was nobody to throw to (which is a narrative that constantly gets repeated). In 2006, people thought Roddy White was a pure bonefide bust. A few years later, Roddy White earned an All-Pro selection. Lamar isn't perfect, but at least Hollywood Brown looks like a legit WR and he and Jackson seem to have some really good chemistry going. If Vick was this stealth great pocket passer, then explain Roddy's growth in the interim period between the Vick era Falcons and the Matt Ryan era Falcons. And Matt Ryan was considered a good, not great QB in those years, it wasn't really until 2012 and beyond that he hit his stride as a QB. So was Matt that much better or was Vick and/or the system just that bad?

As a Panthers fan that watched Vick a lot I would agree with this. I will say though Vick was still a little more unreal in his running ability but the difference is negligible. 

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24 minutes ago, RabidPanther89 said:

As a Panthers fan that watched Vick a lot I would agree with this. I will say though Vick was still a little more unreal in his running ability but the difference is negligible. 

Oh Vick was super exciting. His best plays were unreal to watch. The problem was moreso that you just didn't get enough of them for the Falcons to score a lot and to win a lot of football games.

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