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Is Lamar Jackson already better than Atlanta Vick ever was?


RandyMossIsBoss

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On 11/20/2019 at 11:18 AM, diamondbull424 said:

I watched Vick too and this is untrue. Vick was absolutely fast, but Lamar is stronger and more durable. Vick in college couldn’t last a full collegiate season with his play style and the same was true in the NFL. If you open him up to more hits, he’s not lasting. That and while Vick was probably SLIGHTLY faster, Lamar has better agility and open field moves to make guys miss.

Just comparing purely their RB ability Vick was more like Chris Johnson (only not as fast) while Lamar’s is more LaDainian Tomlinson/Priest Holmes... though historically the Gale Sayers comparison seems very apt.

What? 34-year old Hokie fan and I only remember Vick getting hurt once and that was when his ankle got rolled up on against Pitt. I’m pretty sure Grant Noel came in and finished the game and then we played Miami and Nike made Mike a special cleat but he clearly wasn’t himself. Other than that instance, he didn’t get hurt that I recall. And he was built more like a RB than a QB. Stocky and muscular and probably the fastest human being I’ve ever seen on a football field.

The idea that Lamar is stronger is laughable at best. Durable? You can’t even make this comment yet. Vick was Barry Sanders playing QB. Lamar is killing it and I hope for his sake the Ravens don’t ruin him running him 20 times a game but we don’t need to try and push Vick down to prop up Jackson. 

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On 11/20/2019 at 11:57 AM, diamondbull424 said:

True. But the thing about Vick is that he wasn’t very durable in general. He didn’t last with his style of play in college. So he was never going to last in the pros. Anything could happen to Lamar obviously, but one thing we can’t say is that he wasn’t durable in college. He ran the ball for more yards than Saquan through three seasons yet remained healthy.

In the flavor of this comparison, if Jackson surpasses Vick this season and obliterates his rushing numbers, than it becomes all about longevity. Which player has the more durable history and durable frame? Vick or Lamar?

So even if Lamar is only putting up 700/800 yard seasons, with a more risk adverse style... he’s going to be setup a lot more to surpass Vick’s record of 6000 rushing yards via the longevity aspect as well.

Dude just stop. You’re making up the durability issues in college lol. He missed two games in two years. One because he flipped over a defender for a TD and landed funny and the other because his ankle got rolled up. That’s it. Nothing else. They lost two games during Vick’s college career. The national title game and the game against Miami when he wore the special cleat from when his ankle got rolled up against Pitt. 

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Vick had 1200 yards passing and 600 yards rushing one year and 2000 yards passing and a little under 700 yards rushing his second year at  Virginia Tech outside of highlight clips there really isn’t much of a comparison... at all levels Lamar was and is the better player... Men lie Women lie but numbers can’t... it’s all In The black and white 

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15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Dude just stop. You’re making up the durability issues in college lol. He missed two games in two years. One because he flipped over a defender for a TD and landed funny and the other because his ankle got rolled up. That’s it. Nothing else. They lost two games during Vick’s college career. The national title game and the game against Miami when he wore the special cleat from when his ankle got rolled up against Pitt. 

Facts are facts. So stop acting like they aren’t.

I didn’t say Vick had some RG3 level injury in college. I said he didn’t stay healthy in college and he didn’t remain healthy against collegiate athletes. He “didn’t last” with his playing style in college.

1999: 1.75 games missed in his freshman season. He got hurt in like the late 1st/early 2nd quarter and was out the rest of that game and the next game.

2000: 2 games missed in his sophomore year. Got hurt against Pitt missed the rest of that game and the next game against Central Florida and only played like the second and half of third quarter against the Hurricanes where he was CLEARLY hobbled... so that’s basically two games.

Just because he goes out there trying to be tough and inspire his team in a blowout doesn’t make him somehow more durable.
 

Vick in college had 235 carries. And missed “two” games (more like 4 games unhealthy, but we’ll go with the lower number). So Vick was injured once every 117.5 carries and the result impacted his teams ability to win. Making excuses like, “he fell awkwardly on a somersault jump” or “he got rolled up on by the defender” is irrelevant. What’s relevant is he missed a legit two games and his ability in multiple games outside of those two games were impacted by those injuries (ala durability). And these things are a direct result of his style of play... like doing somersaults over the end zone and such. He played with reckless abandon. 

Now conversely Lamar Jackson in his collegiate career never missed a game due to injury or played noticeably hobbled like Vick against the Hurricanes. In 619 collegiate carries, triple what Vick had, Lamar remained healthy. So his collegiate durability is about 6x better than Vick’s due to, like I said, his style of play.

Vick may have been more compact and faster, but Lamar is more slippery and better at avoiding bigger contact hits. Lamar is like a perfect crossover between Mike Vick and Vince Young in his QB rushing style. Young had a knack for being more slippery than his size and speed would indicate. It allowed him to avoid some huge hits. Lamar runs like a shorter, supercharged version of Vince Young.

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18 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

So again miss me with this madeup Hokie notion that Mike Vick was a durable collegiate athlete. Especially when we compare him to Lamar and what he was able to do with his playing style at the position.

You’re wrong but please continue on. You definitely know more than the Hokie fan who saw every collegiate snap the guy ever took. 

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Just now, lavar703 said:

You’re wrong but please continue on. You definitely know more than the Hokie fan who saw every collegiate snap the guy ever took. 

I love it when people have zero comeback, yet just say things like, “you’re wrong”. I posted a video displaying my FACTUAL analysis. I compiled the rushing carries to injury ratio between the players. You have done none of that. Your points are weak and propped up by your fandom, inherently making them flawed for bias. But hey, I take this as you conceding the point because you literally can’t argue the point. Please explain to me how Mike Vick is a more durable collegiate player than Lamar Jackson? I’ll wait.

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Gone are the good ole days where some older guy could just state something as fact because they are the historical expert and have seen it all with “their own eyes”. The internet is a thing and it allows everyone to see it all with “their own eyes”. Entire games in fact.

This must suck, people not just taking you at your word and instead doing their own research. Case and point you didn’t even comment on the video of a hobbled Vick against Miami. I guess he was completely healthy that game too. Perhaps I’ll “take you at your word.”xD

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On 11/11/2019 at 11:03 PM, ET80 said:

I read today that Lamar Jackson has a higher QB rating over his first 16 games than Tom Brady, and has more rushing yards that Ladanian Tomlinson had over his first 16 games. 

That's beyond rare. From a statistical perspective, Jackson is clearly further than Vick - pre-prison and post-prison.

The Brady thing isn’t really that meaningful.  Brady debuted in 2001, the league was a lot different.  Average passer rating was like 15 points lower.  Brady also wasn’t statistically prolific even by those standards until later in his career.

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1 minute ago, mission27 said:

The Brady thing isn’t really that meaningful.  Brady debuted in 2001, the league was a lot different.  Average passer rating was like 15 points lower.  Brady also wasn’t statistically prolific even by those standards until later in his career.

I don't disagree overall - I'm not even that high in QB rating, to be fair. But I think it illustrates Lamar is enough of a passer to keep defenses from selling out the run.

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38 minutes ago, mission27 said:

The Brady thing isn’t really that meaningful.  Brady debuted in 2001, the league was a lot different.  Average passer rating was like 15 points lower.  Brady also wasn’t statistically prolific even by those standards until later in his career.

Lamar's career passer rating is actually higher than Brady's right now. In fact it's 5th all time among QBs with at least 16 starts:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=1920&year_max=2019&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=qb&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2019&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=gs&c1comp=gt&c1val=16&c5val=1.0&order_by=pass_rating

Obviously that's era influenced, and he's not a better passer than the GOAT QB. He's a not a better RB than LaDanian Tomlinson either. Both that combination of production is unheard of.

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On 11/22/2019 at 9:07 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We should also take a second to step back and realize how far these Lamar threads have come. From comparing him to Mitchell Trubiski and Josh Allen, to comparing him to Mike Vick's prime. We did it, boys.

I remember getting flack before the draft for saying prime Michael Vick was his FLOOR.  Now those same people are saying he's already better than Vick ever was.  And I'm the one who has to defend Vick now like I did with Lamar before the 2018 draft.

Funny how the tune has changed.

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, bmorecareful said:

Vick had 1200 yards passing and 600 yards rushing one year and 2000 yards passing and a little under 700 yards rushing his second year at  Virginia Tech outside of highlight clips there really isn’t much of a comparison... at all levels Lamar was and is the better player... Men lie Women lie but numbers can’t... it’s all In The black and white 

There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics

You would be amazed at how much you can get numbers to lie if you know how to manipulate them 

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42 minutes ago, VanS said:

I remember getting flack before the draft for saying prime Michael Vick was his FLOOR.  Now those same people are saying he's already better than Vick ever was.  And I'm the one who has to defend Vick now like I did with Lamar before the 2018 draft.

Funny how the tune has changed.

Even a broken coocoo clock is less annoying than the two correct takes you've ever had 

(Something something, broken clock, twice a day, coocoo) 

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3 hours ago, VanS said:

I remember getting flack before the draft for saying prime Michael Vick was his FLOOR.  Now those same people are saying he's already better than Vick ever was.  And I'm the one who has to defend Vick now like I did with Lamar before the 2018 draft.

Funny how the tune has changed.

yea bro, you say so many stupid things people dont take you serious, thats not a positive. You ever hear the saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day"? You realize people dont forget all the outlandish, laughably wrong things youve predicted, right?

 

Anyway, Jackson has been sensational this year, probably the front runner for the mvp.

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