This Aint Packers Talk v69

[Sasquatch]

On 12/28/2019 at 4:49 AM, spilltray said:

See the thing is they don't need to take YOUR income. We need to go back to higher top marginal tax rates. One education proposal is actually funded by a transaction tax on Wall Street. We have slashed those top tax rates for decades under the lie of trickle down economics.

 

This country is better when more people are educated and healthy, even if that degree is "useless". More people will take advantage of it for useful education anyway.

I tend to agree.  I live in an area with a high population of minorities, so I don’t expect folks who live in homogenous areas to agree with me, or truly understand that “equality does not equal equity”.  I also understand why the concept of “white privilege” is so misunderstood.  I didn’t understand it either for a long time - I mean, I worked very hard for everything I have, so how can anyone tell me I’m privileged?  Or so I thought.  I became truly enlightened and I’m better for it.

Equality does not "level the playing field," it simply gives everyone the same thing. Equity, however, recognizes that some people have less privilege than others and therefore need a little bit more help to reach the same place. Instead of making everything equal, let's make it equitable.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Sasquatch said:

I tend to agree.  I live in an area with a high population of minorities, so I don’t expect folks who live in homogenous areas to agree with me, or truly understand that “equality does not equal equity”.  I also understand why the concept of “white privilege” is so misunderstood.  I didn’t understand it either for a long time - I mean, I worked very hard for everything I have, so how can anyone tell me I’m privileged?  Or so I thought.  I became truly enlightened and I’m better for it.

Equality does not "level the playing field," it simply gives everyone the same thing. Equity, however, recognizes that some people have less privilege than others and therefore need a little bit more help to reach the same place. Instead of making everything equal, let's make it equitable.

 

Which is fine, but my stupid government can barely manage to get people driver's license in a humane fashion to say nothing of being able to run a qualified education system, why should I want them deciding what's equitable? 

For all the complaints about privilege, my sister is an MPS teacher. She has 7 of 33 students regularly turning in their math homework. Not getting it right, submitting an assignment. How do you try to "level the playing field" when so many have such a willful disregard for education and the acquisition of skills that allow them to improve their financial position? 

I also don't know how you're supposed to tell a kid who has a better ACT score and equivalent GPAs (in what is likely a more rigorous school) that "sorry, you've got a stronger resume, but in an attempt to make things equitable, you're not getting admitted to Madison, but this kid is." Why? Oh, because you have a functioning family unit. 

[Sasquatch]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Which is fine, but my stupid government can barely manage to get people driver's license in a humane fashion to say nothing of being able to run a qualified education system, why should I want them deciding what's equitable? 

For all the complaints about privilege, my sister is an MPS teacher. She has 7 of 33 students regularly turning in their math homework. Not getting it right, submitting an assignment. How do you try to "level the playing field" when so many have such a willful disregard for education and the acquisition of skills that allow them to improve their financial position? 

I also don't know how you're supposed to tell a kid who has a better ACT score and equivalent GPAs (in what is likely a more rigorous school) that "sorry, you've got a stronger resume, but in an attempt to make things equitable, you're not getting admitted to Madison, but this kid is." Why? Oh, because you have a functioning family unit. 

I get it, trust me, I really do.  It would take hours for me to try explain how white privilege has given me and other caucasians so many benefits - most of them completely unknown to me - until you really seek to understand how those not Caucasian do not get the same benefits throughout life.

Ill try and post a graphic that explains the equality doesn’t equal equity concept.

[Golfman]

14 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I tend to agree.  I live in an area with a high population of minorities, so I don’t expect folks who live in homogenous areas to agree with me, or truly understand that “equality does not equal equity”.  I also understand why the concept of “white privilege” is so misunderstood.  I didn’t understand it either for a long time - I mean, I worked very hard for everything I have, so how can anyone tell me I’m privileged?  Or so I thought.  I became truly enlightened and I’m better for it.

Equality does not "level the playing field," it simply gives everyone the same thing. Equity, however, recognizes that some people have less privilege than others and therefore need a little bit more help to reach the same place. Instead of making everything equal, let's make it equitable.

 

 

3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Which is fine, but my stupid government can barely manage to get people driver's license in a humane fashion to say nothing of being able to run a qualified education system, why should I want them deciding what's equitable? 

For all the complaints about privilege, my sister is an MPS teacher. She has 7 of 33 students regularly turning in their math homework. Not getting it right, submitting an assignment. How do you try to "level the playing field" when so many have such a willful disregard for education and the acquisition of skills that allow them to improve their financial position? 

I also don't know how you're supposed to tell a kid who has a better ACT score and equivalent GPAs (in what is likely a more rigorous school) that "sorry, you've got a stronger resume, but in an attempt to make things equitable, you're not getting admitted to Madison, but this kid is." Why? Oh, because you have a functioning family unit. 

Very deep and profound societal problems. I don't know the answers but if you don't fix the problems of the parents in poor communities you have no to little chance with the kids. For better or worse, those are their role models. Your sister has no chance with her students unless/until the kids have parents actively involved with their successes and failures in the classrooms of their child. 

The only way you can make that happen, IMO, is to re-educate those parents and give them a path to a better life/existence. They have to believe there is real opportunity for them and their children. Right now we have families who are 3rd generation welfare recipients. They don't see the upside or a way out for their kids. Can you blame them when the system has them exactly where they want them? 

It's pretty pathetic really, given our wealth as a country. But we could go on! Look at the way we treat our veterans! 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Sasquatch said:

I get it, trust me, I really do.  It would take hours for me to try explain how white privilege has given me and other caucasians so many benefits - most of them completely unknown to me - until you really seek to understand how those not Caucasian do not get the same benefits throughout life.

Ill try and post a graphic that explains the equality doesn’t equal equity concept.

The problem that I have already is the concept of white privilege is already vastly over emphasized. Poor has a bad tendency to stay poor regardless of skin tone. 

[Sasquatch]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

The problem that I have already is the concept of white privilege is already vastly over emphasized. Poor has a bad tendency to stay poor regardless of skin tone. 

Then you’ve never been discriminated against.  Good for you - you’re lucky.  Tell a poor minority kid who’s parents are addicted or dead, or incarcerated and the kids are being raised in abject poverty by their poor grandparents that that kid has no future because they’re unlucky in life.

White privilege is NOT vastly overstated, and you’d be wise to educate yourself before committing yourself to that opinion.

[Webmaster]

Drop the discussion of race and politics now.  

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/guidelines/

Quote

You may not discuss race, religion, politics, or sexual-orientation on these forums. This includes references in usernames, signatures, avatars, and PMs. 

@AlexGreen#20 this is the second time today you've decided to discuss these topics in the Packers forum.  Consider this a final warning.  

[AlexGreen#20]

Done

Edited December 30, 2019 by AlexGreen#20

[Golfman]

OK

Edited December 30, 2019 by Golfman

[Kepler]

12 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The problem that I have already is the concept of white privilege is already vastly over emphasized. Poor has a bad tendency to stay poor regardless of skin tone. 

This is exactly right. The real issue is class based. The upper crust is just smart enough to realize if they make the issue seem like something else then nothing has to actually change and they can keep exploiting everything and everything.

[vegas492]

Quick story about poverty/race...etc.  Some choose to NOT let that define them.  (And a shameless plug for Big Brothers Big Sisters.)

Every year for the past 6 years or so, I've run a kids fishing outing in Waukesha County with Big Brothers Big Sisters of Milwaukee.  My fishing club secures the pontoon boats, bait, fishing rods, guides...etc.  BBBS organizes the kids and they show up to fish.  And don't get me wrong, the fishing is always good and many bluegills are caught, photographed and released.  

But the real fun, at least for me, is watching those kids return.  Full of stories, not necessary of fish, but just about being on the boat and meeting new people.  

Outside of organizing the event, I stay on land and do the cookout.  Burgers, hot dogs, chips, cookies, salads, fruit...etc.  My wife usually runs the ice cream stand for dessert.  Now...every single one of those kids kindly asks me for their hamburgers or hot dogs.  Some want both.  Hand to God, all of them ask politely and use "Please" and "Thank you".  Some want seconds and they ask for them, again politely.   Warms my heart and shows the strength of Big Brothers Big Sisters.

Last year?  Well, we had a few raffle prizes that we gave away for the kids.  We had a high end frisbee, a nice football and a chalk set for drawing on the sidewalk.  Nice little kit, but, we wanted to give a gift for a female, as many girls show up for the event.

We gave every kid a raffle ticket and drew names for prizes.  First went the football.  Kid loved it.  Then his brother won the second prize.  He choose frisbee.  The third pick was for the chalk set.  And of course, the boy who won it probably could have suited up and played guard for the Packers.  He was about 6'1'' 230 pounds.  Just a big kid.  And of course, a little older than most.  He came up, shook my hand, took his prize and thanked all of us.

He went back to his picnic table, looked around and found the smallest girl there.  He went up to her and gifted her that chalk set.  Wasn't prompted to do so, he just wanted to do it.  I'll never, EVER, forget the look on her face.  Admiration, joy, love...all combined into one.  Telling yah, there were about 15 of us adults who saw it happen and we tried hard (and unsuccessfully) to hold back our own tears.

Incredible kids doing incredible things.  I'll never forget that moment.  And it's why we run those events.

[Joe]

Race, class, and wealth mean very little in life if you don't take advantage of opportunity. Many poor people do not have the opportunities to advance themselves, nor are they given the tools in order to do so because of the cycle of poverty. That's why we have a growing gap between the have's and have not's. People like to blame politicians or politics, but that has little to do with it at this point in the game because policy has little effect on opportunity. Of course, there is such a thing as bad opportunity like drugs and other illegal activity and those opportunities regularly present themselves to those who have no other opportunities. 

We as a people will continue to waste our time debating everything mentioned above until we understand two things and two things alone. 1. how to develop healthy and fruitful opportunities. and 2. how to contain and/or diminish the broad reach of the cycle of poverty. The second of those two is more crucial because it affects the first. These two topics need to be thoroughly debated by we the public and the lizard people our ruling class....

Edited December 30, 2019 by Joe

[StinkySauce]

On 12/27/2019 at 9:39 PM, HighCalebR said:

Honestly there should be more of a test for driving. IDC if it's 16 but make sure people actually know it's a big responsibility.

Kids are good at learning things, but 16 year olds are idiots.  They can learn something and not know it.  A 16 year old will drive great 90% of the time and then 10% of the time drive 120 mph on icy streets at midnights with their headlights off because two of their friends in the back seat have their heads out the windows and are howling at mailboxes.  
 

We get bored of driving our kids around.  But it would be safer to let them drink your good scotch when they’re 13 than to let them into the driver’s seat at 16.  I know we’re never going to change that age but man, kids are dumb.

[ThatJerkDave]

23 minutes ago, StinkySauce said:

Kids are good at learning things, but 16 year olds are idiots.  They can learn something and not know it.  A 16 year old will drive great 90% of the time and then 10% of the time drive 120 mph on icy streets at midnights with their headlights off because two of their friends in the back seat have their heads out the windows and are howling at mailboxes.  
 

We get bored of driving our kids around.  But it would be safer to let them drink your good scotch when they’re 13 than to let them into the driver’s seat at 16.  I know we’re never going to change that age but man, kids are dumb.

Kids are great at learning things.  The problem is that they lack the experience to know the consequences of their actions.  I know I was invincible as a kid, weren't you?

[ThatJerkDave]