Dubz41 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Why should it have been two days ago? Are you going to have the local jurisdiction, who the guy is a part of, do the investigations and the arrest? He was fired. He had no more authority. Unless he was a trigger happy nut as an officer, who you were worried about being a danger to others, it absolutely made sense to involve the Feds and let them handle it. They're the ones that are going to be investigating and prosecuting in all likelihood. If the Feds need a second day to make sure that everything is absolutely correct and that nothing is going to slip by, it makes all the sense in the world to let them have that day. +++ Regarding qualified immunity, it's been under review by SCOTUS since before this murder. It's not like it's been ignored. The examples you're citing all appear to be currently appealed cases, though I might be wrong about that. The most egregious cases all seem to come from SEC country where local juries give the benefit of the doubt to the cop in all instances. Local courts badly applying laws doesn't necessarily make them bad laws. Qualified Immunity exists for a reason. It's to stop every arrest from turning into an assault charge. A balance needs to be stuck between holding officers accountable and allowing them to do their jobs. Qualified Immunity definitely oversteps that, but the people advocating that officers be treated like regular citizens are missing the boat. Two days ago because that's when anyone else with video proof would have been arrested. Bolded- was from an article, I didn't cite them. You know the difference right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: A murder charge would result in an innocent verdict and then mass riots again. What happened was manslaughter, I get that everyone is mad about what happened, but you can't just charge someone with the most severe charge because of emotions. I thoroughly understand the legalese of the situation. It does NOT change the fact the policeman murdered Lloyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: Two days ago because that's when anyone else with video proof would have been arrested. Bolded- was from an article, I didn't cite them. You know the difference right? The difference being that anybody else wouldn't have caused a conflict of interest with the arrest and required an outside agency to be involved. Sorry getting the outside agency involved took a minute. Getting the conviction matters way more than two days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: I thoroughly understand the legalese of the situation. It does NOT change the fact the policeman murdered Lloyd. Literally nobody is arguing otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: I thoroughly understand the legalese of the situation. It does NOT change the fact the policeman murdered Lloyd. By law he did not. Would need to involve premeditation and intent which you can only assume is there if you stand in that circle. He unnecessarily killed Lloyd and I'm glad he's being punished for it. People asking for a more severe charge are essentially asking he be set free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: A murder charge would result in an innocent verdict and then mass riots again. What happened was manslaughter, I get that everyone is mad about what happened, but you can't just charge someone with the most severe charge because of emotions. Preface: I am not a lawyer, and I don't know Minnesota Law. As far as I can tell, this is a case of either second degree murder or involuntary manslaughter. It would not be possible to find a person who looked at the situation objectively and determined that there was premeditation to this homicide. So there goes first degree murder. Second degree murder would take proving that the officer killed the suspect purposely. That is probably also not going to be proven, but I could see an argument made for that charge. One would have to know the Minnesota second degree murder definition to make that judgement. I think a safer bet is the involuntary manslaughter. The officer took neglectful actions resulting in a homicide. This along with a charge for excessive force should be an easy case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Preface: I am not a lawyer, and I don't know Minnesota Law. As far as I can tell, this is a case of either second degree murder or involuntary manslaughter. It would not be possible to find a person who looked at the situation objectively and determined that there was premeditation to this homicide. So there goes first degree murder. Second degree murder would take proving that the officer killed the suspect purposely. That is probably also not going to be proven, but I could see an argument made for that charge. One would have to know the Minnesota second degree murder definition to make that judgement. I think a safer bet is the involuntary manslaughter. The officer took neglectful actions resulting in a homicide. This along with a charge for excessive force should be an easy case. Exactly this, outside shot of the 2nd degree, but highly unlikely you could prove intent or desire. If you want justice, they charged him with something that should provide justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmaster Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Everyone, please remember our forum rules during this discussion. https://forums.footballsfuture.com/guidelines/ Quote You may not discuss race, religion, politics, or sexual-orientation on these forums. This includes references in usernames, signatures, avatars, and PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Exactly this, outside shot of the 2nd degree, but highly unlikely you could prove intent or desire. If you want justice, they charged him with something that should provide justice. Agree - unless - this cop has a history of racial actions......or posts on social media that "he's gonna get him some black people" (or some such stupidity....) - but even then - tieing his expressed attitudes to his actions caught on tape......makes for tricky courtroom work. Heard the medical examiner has made some determinations: there were no obvious signs of suffocation and cited Floyd's preexisting heart conditions........so we may be heading down that road again. Edited May 29, 2020 by Leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 A lot of people are really showing who you are. bottom line is : Police have been killing unarmed black people at a alarming rate ,and many of them are walking away free from prosecution . We’ve also done NOTHING in this country to address it. Even worse, there are people who try to vilify those who try to bring awareness to the issue. Then we have people in positions of power who continuously try to divide us and even inciting violence. It’s a stain on this Country, and it’s embarrassing that in 2020 that this and more continues to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, Webmaster said: Everyone, please remember our forum rules during this discussion. https://forums.footballsfuture.com/guidelines/ oh, yes, I'm SURE everyone will follow that . the same forum suspects will go down the same paths vilifying others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webmaster Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, TransientTexan said: oh, yes, I'm SURE everyone will follow that . the same forum suspects will go down the same paths vilifying others. Well it is probably best for everyone to avoid the topic altogether. It's obviously more important than football, but not something that needs to be discussed here as it is almost impossible to discuss within our forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: A lot of people are really showing who you are. bottom line is : Police have been killing unarmed black people at a alarming rate ,and many of them are walking away free from prosecution . We’ve also done NOTHING in this country to address it. Even worse, there are people who try to vilify those who try to bring awareness to the issue. Then we have people in positions of power who continuously try to divide us and even inciting violence. It’s a stain on this Country, and it’s embarrassing that in 2020 that this and more continues to happen. What do you want done other than charging people with murder when they commit murder? There's also been unbelievable financial and social support for these causes and you're seeing departments constantly upgrading their practices with things like making body cameras mandatory. The problem with progress in this case is that progress isn't a grand sweeping gesture. It's not something visible. It's a million tiny little steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Anyone else seen this? https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/05/29/george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-worked-at-the-same-nightclub-but-may-not-have-known-each-other-owner-says/#9d682774d823 May be a lot more merit to charging in the 2nd degree if they knew each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: What do you want done other than charging people with murder when they commit murder? There's also been unbelievable financial and social support for these causes and you're seeing departments constantly upgrading their practices with things like making body cameras mandatory. The problem with progress in this case is that progress isn't a grand sweeping gesture. It's not something visible. It's a million tiny little steps. People are the problem, not police. There are bad cops, bad doctors, bad military people....all people can be evil. To vilify all cops is ridiculous. Some of my best friends are great people and police officers. To lump them in with the evil cops (which do exist) is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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