Rainmaker90 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 48 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The people expecting to keep things shut down indefinitely are the ones that believed their own propaganda. The maximum way to emphasize current leadership is incompetent is by acting like the current response is inadequate. The more severe the situation is, the more the current response looks inadequate. The problem is that the situation isn't that dire, and they've convinced themselves that it is. The people acting like an indefinite shutdown should be enacted are also the ones still cashing checks and able to work from home where a ton of people are hurting badly. Again, the CDC has guidelines when things should open. Nobody wants to be shut down indefinitely. People want to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The problem is that the situation isn't that dire This illustrates the inherent catch-22: The situation is not dire largely because of the risk mitigations in place, and because of this, people don't think the risk mitigations need to be in place. Yossarian would approve lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: Again, the CDC has guidelines when things should open. Nobody wants to be shut down indefinitely. People want to be safe. The CDC lied to the American people about the effectiveness of wearing masks. The CDC can't even figure out the disease portion of this thing. Asking them to view the nation holistically and make the large over arching decision is ridiculous. The CDC's input should be considered when making the decision. The CDC should not be making the decision. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, incognito_man said: This illustrates the inherent catch-22: The situation is not dire largely because of the risk mitigations in place, and because of this, people don't think the risk mitigations need to be in place. Yossarian would approve lol How much of it not being dire is due to the actions taken versus the original prediction that the rate of lethality upon contraction is 2.5% versus the 0.5% we're seeing? Places like nursing homes and hospitals definitely need to keep up precautions. The rest of us . . . still need to be cautious. But 20% unemployment isn't sustainable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: How much of it not being dire is due to the actions taken versus the original prediction that the rate of lethality upon contraction is 2.5% versus the 0.5% we're seeing? Places like nursing homes and hospitals definitely need to keep up precautions. The rest of us . . . still need to be cautious. But 20% unemployment isn't sustainable. I'm commenting only on the fallacy that the situation is not dire, and that that is reason to lift mitigations. It may not have touched you personally and that's why you don't see how bad it was and how worse it could have been (and still could be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: How much of it not being dire is due to the actions taken versus the original prediction that the rate of lethality upon contraction is 2.5% versus the 0.5% we're seeing? I wouldn't lean into those lethality stats too hard- they are not indicative of the actual rates and several outlets have written extensively on the topic If you don't have tests available, you can't test people. And since there aren't enough tests, you surely aren't going to waste them on people who are already dead The morgue counts are closer to reality and those are coming in much higher than 2.5 %. even after backing out normal death numbers As I noted in the TAST thread, it took us 2+ years to have a final death toll for 911. That was a single event on a single day in one city.Suggesting we have conclusive data in the middle of an evolving pandemic isn't consistent with reality and its surely not something you'd use to make critical public health decisions Edited May 14, 2020 by Shanedorf 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said: Facts are saying so. You are underselling this virus so much. Grossly misleading statements. You can make facts determine your way of thinking just like I can. I'm acknowledging the virus is here but so different in most areas of the state. 5 counties out of 72 have 80% of the cases. In central and northern Wis there is NOT the issue like Milwaukee, Madison and Green Bay where there the meat packing plants have the vast majority of contacts. The one glove fits all theory mandating all people/business in the state have to stay home and closed aint going to cut it and the Wis Supreme Court agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said: The CDC has released guidelines on when we should open things. That’s what we should follow. Wisconsin has met the requirements for the first phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, packfanfb said: Yes, there at A LOT of people who believe this. It's insane. Some virus still don't have a vaccine. Yah, let's wait until that comes, maybe ... if it's like the flu vaccine not even 50% of the population gets one not to mention the shots don't cover half of the flu strains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The people acting like an indefinite shutdown should be enacted are also the ones still cashing checks and able to work from home where a ton of people are hurting badly. This is the biggest truth right here. Of the people I know who are up in arms about the decision, all of them have been able to work from home and actually pocket more money due to the stimulus and lack of things to due leading to more savings, less spending. If they owned their own restaurant or gym that their entire life depended on, they probably would have a different tude. Everyone said this time would make us all more understanding and empathetic. Nope, everyone's still a jack- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Wisconsin has met the requirements for the first phase. we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dubz41 said: A lot of people are scared and the amount of misinformation feeds that fear. The things people believe or re-tweet is astounding. There has been a huge movement of ignoring science from the very top to the masses. My wife is an RN and my daughter is a BioChemist who works with Covid 19 everyday. They tell me that we still know very little about this strain of virus, very little. It affects people in so many different ways and it seems to have side effects that can linger. This is NOT just another flu. This is not explained away easily. I know things need to move forward, but the cavalier attitude some have will make it harder than it has to be. Please don't compare the U.S. to Sweden unless you want to make the argument for socialized medicine. Thanks. Agree, don't want Sweden and it's medical system. Was just pointing out the WHO that at first ripped their process of covid handling now is saying maybe that was the way to go. Want no part of socialized medicine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: I wouldn't lean into those lethality stats too hard- they are not indicative of the actual rates and several outlets have written extensively on the topic If you don't have tests available, you can't test people. And since there aren't enough tests, you surely aren't going to waste them on people who are already dead The morgue counts are closer to reality and those are coming in much higher than 2.5 %. even after backing out normal death numbers As I noted in the TAST thread, it took us 2+ years to have a final death toll for 911. That was a single event on a single day in one city. Suggesting we have conclusive data in the middle of an evolving pandemic isn't consistent with reality and its surely not something you'd use to make critical public health decisions The morgue doesn't count the thousands of asymptomatic cases that never get tested until we get antibody tests. The only fact about the mortality rate is that no one should be stating they know the mortality rate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The people expecting to keep things shut down indefinitely are the ones that believed their own propaganda. The maximum way to emphasize current leadership is incompetent is by acting like the current response is inadequate. The more severe the situation is, the more the current response looks inadequate. The problem is that the situation isn't that dire, and they've convinced themselves that it is. The people acting like an indefinite shutdown should be enacted are also the ones still cashing checks and able to work from home where a ton of people are hurting badly. Spot on ... spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, coachbuns said: In central and northern Wis there is NOT the issue like Milwaukee, Madison and Green Bay I think you forgot the word "YET" I am not aware of anything exceptional about you or your area that will magically protect you from infection. So its probably a little early for the victory parade. I genuinely hope it works out OK for everybody, but I wouldn't bet on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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