Minor Niner News Twos: Electric Boogaloos

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, JIllg said:

Shanahan's job with a 3rd string qb is impressive, but it is on just about the least quarterback dependent, most stacked rest of the roster in the NFL. And as Forge stated, it's been against a lightweight slate of teams. Aside from Brock, this is a team of All-Pros performing as they are paid to perform. The Giants are a team of mostly junk for which competence is an impressive coaching feat. They might have the worst receiving situation in the NFL. And receivers are the second most valuable positions on the field. They have Daniel Jones at QB. Now, their record is fluky. Not as fluky as the Vikings, but they're a 0 point differential team with 3 more wins than losses. So it isn't as though the Giants are a good team. But they have a Bears-adjacent quality roster and are a playoff team. That's tremendous work.

Least QB dependent or not, it is with the third string rookie QB. Winning six games with your 3rd string QB is damn near impossible, especially when you consider this one is a rookie 7th rounder...barely at that. 

The Giants won a bunch of close games at the end, so props to them for that. But their record will be 9-7-1 with a negative point differential. I can't give a coach like that the award over Shanny or even Sirianni. People may have thought the Eagles would be good this season, but how many thought they would be THIS dominant? They probably lose just one game if Hurts never gets injured. 

9 minutes ago, Forge said:

i do think you are kind of underselling "a great story". I think narrative matters quite a bit. IF you think the giants were a 5 win team and they make the playoffs as a 6 seed and are essentially 9-6-1 (scrap the last game, obviously), then that says a lot about the job that he's doing. He simply doesn't have the talent of the eagles to work with. That's why I think this award so often goes to a coach of a "surprise" team. Because they are trying to grade the coaching as its own thing. 

The wins aren't insignificant, but also not the end all be all. Andy Reid finished 7th the last time he won 14 games in a season. Behind Ron Rivera who had 7 wins. My concern with Daboll winning the award isn't the difference in the win total exactly (though they are undoubtedly tied together), but rather the fact that he likely won't make it to double digit wins. We haven't had a single digit victory coach of the year in quite some time, so that's going to be a hard sell. If he were at 10 or 11, I think it would be a lock. . But that just means I think Shanny will get the bump as opposed to Sirianni because he's going to be just shy in the record department. 

I did think Sirianni was going to be the leader up until Hurts got hurt, but 0-2 in those games is rough when you consider the Hurts was the leader for the MVP when he went down as well. 

So I think Howie exec of the year, Daboll / Shanny / Sirianni as the top 3 coach of the year candidates with the former two being the leaders in the clubhouse. 

Reid unfortunately is expected to win 13-14 games a season and gets penalized for that. No one was really expecting the Eagles to look this good nor was anyone expecting the Niners to win six straight when Jimmy G went out. 

Daboll is a very worthy challenger for the award and has done a great job, no complaints there. But he will finish 3rd. 

[NinerNation21]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Just remember back to 2017 and that'll level you out pretty quick. 

There's a legit chance Purdy isn't the starter next year (and there should be a legit chance that he is), so just enjoy the ride he has the team on now. 

I do think injuries have lowered the trajectory of Jimmy's abilities. 2017 Jimmy was fun and fearless. Jimmy post injuries is just looking to hit layups and is about as mobile as Tom Brady. 

I think the ceiling, right now, is higher for Purdy than what Jimmy's is for several reasons. Lance is still unknown, but I do agree that Purdy is not a lock to be our starter next nor should he be. 

I can see a QB room going into camp next year of Purdy, Lance, a cheap vet backup (Sudfeld?), and a UDFA QB and I'd be perfectly content with that. Lance and Purdy need to battle it out. Nothing should be given to either of them.

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

I do think injuries have lowered the trajectory of Jimmy's abilities. 2017 Jimmy was fun and fearless. Jimmy post injuries is just looking to hit layups and is about as mobile as Tom Brady. 

I think the ceiling, right now, is higher for Purdy than what Jimmy's is for several reasons. Lance is still unknown, but I do agree that Purdy is not a lock to be our starter next nor should he be. 

I can see a QB room going into camp next year of Purdy, Lance, a cheap vet backup (Sudfeld?), and a UDFA QB and I'd be perfectly content with that. Lance and Purdy need to battle it out. Nothing should be given to either of them.

I kind of want them to just keep Jacob Eason around, tbh. 

[JIllg]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Least QB dependent or not, it is with the third string rookie QB. Winning six games with your 3rd string QB is damn near impossible, especially when you consider this one is a rookie 7th rounder...barely at that. 

The Giants won a bunch of close games at the end, so props to them for that. But their record will be 9-7-1 with a negative point differential. I can't give a coach like that the award over Shanny or even Sirianni. People may have thought the Eagles would be good this season, but how many thought they would be THIS dominant? They probably lose just one game if Hurts never gets injured. 

Reid unfortunately is expected to win 13-14 games a season and gets penalized for that. No one was really expecting the Eagles to look this good nor was anyone expecting the Niners to win six straight when Jimmy G went out. 

Daboll is a very worthy challenger for the award and has done a great job, no complaints there. But he will finish 3rd. 

I get the idea that the top coach award must go to a coach that actually led a team to an impressive record rather than just overperforming over expectation alone. It is a chain of logic that I can understand. It's a lot harder to win the extra games that you weren't supposed to at the top of the ladder rather than the bottom. I still think personally that Daboll has done the most work over expectation with the talent available to him in the NFL. I really dislike almost that entire roster. They are a franchise that dumped James Bradberry for no reason, as one important example. Sirianni is an excellent coach that has a roster superbly crafted by excellent personnel process and decisions. I think that he's done a great job, but Roseman deserves the award for the Eagles' success more. I think Shanahan has a fine argument that makes sense. I just don't find it quite as compelling as Daboll's given the situation that Daboll is in. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, JIllg said:

I get the idea that the top coach award must go to a coach that actually led a team to an impressive record rather than just overperforming over expectation alone. It is a chain of logic that I can understand. It's a lot harder to win the extra games that you weren't supposed to at the top of the ladder rather than the bottom. I still think personally that Daboll has done the most work over expectation with the talent available to him in the NFL. I really dislike almost that entire roster. They are a franchise that dumped James Bradberry for no reason, as one important example. Sirianni is an excellent coach that has a roster superbly crafted by excellent personnel process and decisions. I think that he's done a great job, but Roseman deserves the award for the Eagles' success more. I think Shanahan has a fine argument that makes sense. I just don't find it quite as compelling as Daboll's given the situation that Daboll is in. 

Fair enough, but if Daboll finished like 11-6, I would think different, even if Sirianni and Shanny had more wins than him. But when one coach has 9 and the other two have 13 and 14? That sways my opinion on who should win the award. The gap is as big as it is between the Giants and the Rams lol. 

[straighthate]

Let’s say Niners are 100% all in on Lance. What do you think Purdy’s trade value is this off-season, assuming a decent play off run, but not necessarily a Super Bowl run? 
 

Not thinking this is at all on the table, just curious what you guys think he’d command? 

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, straighthate said:

Let’s say Niners are 100% all in on Lance. What do you think Purdy’s trade value is this off-season, assuming a decent play off run, but not necessarily a Super Bowl run? 
 

Not thinking this is at all on the table, just curious what you guys think he’d command? 

I don't think anyone would give anything high enough to make it worth it. He doesn't have the sample size and he's coached by Shanahan with possibly the best accumulation of skill talent in the league. He's a guy that was bypassed by every team for the entirety of the draft. I don't think what he has done so far is going to change their thinking all that much. I don't think he returns a first, though his current production on a 7th round pick cap hit would make him one of more valuable players in the league from a cost efficiency standpoint. 

I think maybe a cap strapped team with a QB problem but a good roster could throw a day two pick or two at you? second this year, third next year sort of thing? There have been guys who have gotten moved with smaller sample sizes before, and that is generally the market. Jimmy G got a second. Matt Schaub got two seconds, I think (and a two pick swap in the first round). For whatever reason, Schaub was extremely well thought of around the league for a guy with such limited play. Kolb had 7 starts when he got moved for a second and DRC...the corner was an okay player...sort of a weird career though. Lots of picks, lots of big plays at the time. Coming off a bad year before the trade if I remember right. 

[jonnguy2015]

1 hour ago, straighthate said:

Let’s say Niners are 100% all in on Lance. What do you think Purdy’s trade value is this off-season, assuming a decent play off run, but not necessarily a Super Bowl run? 
 

Not thinking this is at all on the table, just curious what you guys think he’d command? 

Better to keep him if we stick with Lance, in my opinion. A quality backup with a $889k cap hit is great value unless a team is willing to overpay in trade compensation

Edited January 8, 2023 by jonnguy2015

[GW21]

Bill Parcells’ rules for drafting a QB. Brock hit all those marks from what I can tell.

• Be a three-year starter
• Be a senior in college
• Graduate from college
• Start 30 games
• Win 23 games
• Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
• Complete at least 60% of passes thrown

 

[Forge]

4 niners on the players association all pro team. 

Trent, Bosa, Warner, Juice 

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

Lol no, that's not the reason he is declining those interviews. It's not like Peters is on the coaching staff having to get the team ready for Seattle. The reason he is declining those interviews is either he does not like neither job, or, and more likely, he has the GM spot lined up for him in SF. Does anyone expect Lynch to return if we win it all this season? There is a reason Lynch had Peters with him on one of the pressers after the draft. This has been in the works for some time now. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by J-ALL-DAY

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

Was just posting this. Glad to keep him around, especially in his current role. Really seems to have a tremendous eye. 

[Forge]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

Lol no, that's not the reason he is declining those interviews. It's not like Peters is on the coaching staff having to get the team ready for Seattle. The reason he is declining those interviews is either he does not like either job or, and more likely, he has the GM spot lined up for him in SF. Does anyone expect Lynch to return if we win it all this season? There is a reason Lynch had Peters with him on one of the pressers after the draft. This has been in the works for some time now. 

This has been playing at the back of my mind for quite some time. I Don't think we win it all, but if we did, I think I agree with you....Lynch would call it quits. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

This has been playing at the back of my mind for quite some time. I Don't think we win it all, but if we did, I think I agree with you....Lynch would call it quits. 

Lynch was closer to taking that gig with Amazon than originally reported I believe. Even Shanny was not sure what direction Lynch was going to go in and the rumored money was insane. Lynch is great at the booth and will be highly coveted this offseason if he retires from his current GM job. I never saw him as a lifer in his current position. Shanny only knows coaching as he has been around it his entire life and will coach for years to come....But Lynch on the other hand? No, he's different and after he wins one SB, he will be ready to call it quits. Peters knows he has a job lined up here and that's why it is pointless even requesting interviews for him at this point lol.