Week 11 GDT - Arizona Cardinals at San Francisco 49ers

[JIllg]

DEEBO is also the first rookie WR with back to back 8 catch 100 yd games since OBJ.

[oldman9er]

36 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I don't think getting our targets back means we're going to avoid close games.

Agree to disagree, I guess. Hope we get the opportunity soon to find out, George and Manny. 

Quote

 

 Its just certain teams and their personnel we don't match up well against defensively. Defensively, our strength is our D-Line. Creating pressure up the middle and having guys like Ford and Bosa clean up, off the edge. 

So what kind of offenses would be able to exploit that? Teams that spread you out and attack you with quick passing and run out of spread concepts.

 

I'd guess our "problem" to be more scheme philosophical. We seem content to allow the underneath stuff.. which negates much of our own DL pass rush, but allows for more chances that offenses will sputter to a point of not making each chain conversion. (bend-don't-break)

I don't know if that's wise.. or accurate.. or the best approach.. or if they don't trust the secondary enough.. or if they want to make offenses have to grind, instead of cheap big plays. 

Just all conjecture on my part. I watch, and sometimes watch twice.. but there could be intricacies I don't notice. 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, JIllg said:

DEEBO is also the first rookie WR with back to back 8 catch 100 yd games since OBJ.

I believe the first rookie to do it in our history as well, I thought I read. 

[Dub_City30]

13 hours ago, 49ers2015 said:

Does anyone think that the defense is just super tired right now and that the "peak/being hot" occurred too soon this season? 

Someone brought that up to me today and I was like "uh oh"

 

Losing Kwon has caused the defense to lose the energy that he brought

[J-ALL-DAY]

4 hours ago, Dub_City30 said:

Losing Kwon has caused the defense to lose the energy that he brought

The energy has been fine and Kwon was playing in that Arizona game. And the defense was great against Seattle. Just had some tough stretches against Arizona in spurts, but that has to do with their offensive style and the fact we have lost so much depth. Ford/Kwon/Blair/Jones all either missed the entire game or majority of the 2nd half against Arizona. How many defenses can lose four key contributors and keep up the same level of play? 

Edited November 19, 2019 by J-ALL-DAY

[NcFinest9erFan]

19 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

The energy has been been and Kwon was playing in that Arizona game. And the defense was great against Seattle. Just had some tough stretches against Arizona in spurts, but that has to do with their offensive style and the fact we have lost so much depth. Ford/Kwon/Blair/Jones all either missed the entire game or majority of the 2nd half against Arizona. How many defenses can lose four key contributors and keep up the same level of play? 

NOBODY! 

[NcFinest9erFan]

2 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Agree to disagree, I guess. Hope we get the opportunity soon to find out, George and Manny. 

I'd guess our "problem" to be more scheme philosophical. We seem content to allow the underneath stuff.. which negates much of our own DL pass rush, but allows for more chances that offenses will sputter to a point of not making each chain conversion. (bend-don't-break)

I don't know if that's wise.. or accurate.. or the best approach.. or if they don't trust the secondary enough.. or if they want to make offenses have to grind, instead of cheap big plays. 

Just all conjecture on my part. I watch, and sometimes watch twice.. but there could be intricacies I don't notice. 

Yeah, I'm not sure what adjustment we could of made but was a bit disappointed that two weeks later, Saleh didn't try to change much? Although it was just in spurts but man it was bad when it happened.  

[NcFinest9erFan]

3 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

I don't think getting our targets back means we're going to avoid close games. Its just certain teams and their personnel we don't match up well against defensively. Defensively, our strength is our D-Line. Creating pressure up the middle and having guys like Ford and Bosa clean up, off the edge. 

So what kind of offenses would be able to exploit that? Teams that spread you out and attack you with quick passing and run out of spread concepts. Arizona, Seattle, Baltimore, Houston....even Dallas to a certain degree. Those are teams that we will have a hard time containing...because it negates our strength as a unit. That's why I say traditional offenses with traditional pocket passers are less of a worry for me. Our defense is set-up to make their lives miserable. But outside of Kwon and maybe Warner, we're not a particular fast nor quick, sideline to sideline type of defense. So our ability to defend those types of offenses is not in our wheelhouse.  

And I think we match up VERY WELL with GB. Rodgers hates when you can pressure him with four and cover 7. The chargers did that a few weeks back and gave him fits. 

fun fact tho, I don't think A rod has beaten us when we have fielded a great team. 

[Forge]

26 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

And I think we match up VERY WELL with GB. Rodgers hates when you can pressure him with four and cover 7. The chargers did that a few weeks back and gave him fits. 

fun fact tho, I don't think A rod has beaten us when we have fielded a great team. 

Have to be able to run the football. That is legitimately what its going to come down to. If we continue to suck at running the football, this could be a dreadful game for us. We shouldn't struggle running against them, but we have really had problems moving the football on the ground. 

[757-NINER]

26 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

And I think we match up VERY WELL with GB. Rodgers hates when you can pressure him with four and cover 7. The chargers did that a few weeks back and gave him fits. 

fun fact tho, I don't think A rod has beaten us when we have fielded a great team. 

Yes I'm not as worried about Rodgers as I should be. He's a magician in his own right, but I feel like Armstead, DeFo and Taylor could make his night miserable upfront and allow Bosa to really wreak havoc on the edge. Just have to contain Jones as a receiving threat out of the backfield and not allow Rodgers to buy time in the pocket to get to his second and third reads. I think Warner and Greenlaw will be key in containing the short-passing game and using them on timely blitzes to disrupt timing in their passing game.

But the Ravens game?? I don't think we have a chance at the moment. Just too hard to corrale Jackson. Their defense is good, not great so I think we can score but those mobile QBs will continue to give us headaches...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/19/49ers-defense-is-shutting-down-opposing-quarterbacks-but-not-kyler-murray/

[J-ALL-DAY]

12 minutes ago, Forge said:

Have to be able to run the football. That is legitimately what its going to come down to. If we continue to suck at running the football, this could be a dreadful game for us. We shouldn't struggle running against them, but we have really had problems moving the football on the ground. 

Just depends how GB defends us. When you say we shouldn't struggle running against them, I mean it's going to happen if they defend us how SEA/AZ defended us. Pretty much just can't do anything in that case. However, our passing game better light them up if that is case. 

So was listening to Simms breakdown of the game and heard this statistic:

2nd in rushing YPG, but 16th in yards per rush

15th in passing YPG, but 8th in yards per pass

Don't want as big of a pass/run discrepancy as we had last game, but no problem putting the game on Jimmy's arm and let him make things happen. No need to try to establish the run when it isn't going anywhere with stacked boxes. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by J-ALL-DAY

[NcFinest9erFan]

4 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Yes I'm not as worried about Rodgers as I should be. He's a magician in his own right, but I feel like Armstead, DeFo and Taylor could make his night miserable upfront and allow Bosa to really wreak havoc on the edge. Just have to contain Jones as a receiving threat out of the backfield and not allow Rodgers to buy time in the pocket to get to his second and third reads. I think Warner and Greenlaw will be key in containing the short-passing game and using them on timely blitzes to disrupt timing in their passing game.

But the Ravens game?? I don't think we have a chance at the moment. Just too hard to corrale Jackson. Their defense is good, not great so I think we can score but those mobile QBs will continue to give us headaches...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/19/49ers-defense-is-shutting-down-opposing-quarterbacks-but-not-kyler-murray/

Yeah Balt has 3 LEGIT CBs but I think their weakness on def is the run game?

[J-ALL-DAY]

All this stuff about not shutting down Murray this game is a but curious statement. He had 150 passing yards and a terrible YPA. Not only that, the Cardinals had 99 yards of offense in the 2nd half. He did well with his legs, but still had less than 220 total yards? Cards averaged 4.3 yards per play and had 267 total yards. 

I don't know, just don't agree with how our defense was bad this game. 

[757-NINER]

29 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

All this stuff about not shutting down Murray this game is a but curious statement. He had 150 passing yards and a terrible YPA. Not only that, the Cardinals had 99 yards of offense in the 2nd half. He did well with his legs, but still had less than 220 total yards? Cards averaged 4.3 yards per play and had 267 total yards. 

I don't know, just don't agree with how our defense was bad this game. 

I dont think anyone is saying we were bad. But those type of offenses, and against those type of QBs doesn't allow us to play to our strength as a unit. Instead of getting upfield, we have to defend, sideline to sideline and that's not really what we're built for. Especially upfront and with Kwon gone. Defending the spread doesn't allow our front seven to 'eat' like they do against more traditional offenses. The stats for Murray against us though not eye-opening, are telling when you compare them to the other QBs we've faced this year, including Wilson. That's why I don't think we stand a chance against Jackson...just the pessimist in me. 

And let's remember, Kirk dropped a key third down pass where he was WIDE OPEN in the first quarter. They convert that and who knows...we might be down 23 points instead of 16 and that may have been too much for the offense to overcome. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by 757-NINER

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Just depends how GB defends us. When you say we shouldn't struggle running against them, I mean it's going to happen if they defend us how SEA/AZ defended us. Pretty much just can't do anything in that case. However, our passing game better light them up if that is case. 

So was listening to Simms breakdown of the game and heard this statistic:

2nd in rushing YPG, but 16th in yards per rush

15th in passing YPG, but 8th in yards per pass

Don't want as big of a pass/run discrepancy as we had last game, but no problem putting the game on Jimmy's arm and let him make things happen. No need to try to establish the run when it isn't going anywhere with stacked boxes. 

They aren't good against the run. We shouldn't struggle. If they stack the box, you have to be able to take advantage of that and make them pull back to open it back up. But we are going to have to run well at some point.